MY Water Injection System

[oil pan 4]

EPA says up to 6% is possible.
I got about a 4% improvement.

[teoman]

Harlan, you da man! I have been looking at your youtube channel.

We have a lot in common. I have like a 100 arduinos, 2 cats, a delta 3d printer and 2 of the same canbus shields!

[teoman]

Well it seems that i may be installing my water injection system on my ml350 2003 converted to lpg.

Any idea what kind of effect or problem i can expect with lpg?

[teoman]

A bit of progress, i managed to get an injector. It is from a 1.6L peugeot GTI.
I also have a big water tank.
Just need the pump ( I already have all the electronics).

Experimentation will continue.

Another idea popped in to my mind, distilling water is a bit of a problem as I live in an appartment building and it is not easy to carry water. Gas stations have water but I woudl not want to inject that in to the engine as is.

What if i put a sealed metal container on to the exhaust manifold (the container is a semi disposable item here) the water will start to boil and evaporate, travel through a hose and bubble in to my main water supply filling it up.

Obviously after a certain amount of cycles i will have to either clean the gunk (calcium buildup) inside the water can or get a fresh can.

Also i will have to have a think of a checkvalve so that the container does not suck the water back after everything has cooled off.

[gumby79]

Having to buy "clean "distilled watter is a major contributor to the OEM's are not using water injection. Most customers would just fill from the tap causing the system to be prone to failure and a warranty nightmare. 10% rule would render the device useless.
In the Army we had the 10% rule .
It states, You must be 10% smarter than the device you are trying to operate, in order to succeed at operating it.

Will you be injecting before or after the turbo? After the IC is my recommendation, to prevent water condensingin the IC causing a restriction or worse a sudden surge of unmetered water.

Onbord distillery. That'll do maby use a trans cooler to condense the water. So that you can have an air gap. . Insulate the pressure vessel. Be prepared for sudden presure spiks as you hit bumps and turn,stop, start causing the water to slosh onto the hot dry parts of the boiler.
Maby a small boiling chamber( like an egr cooler) with a suplly tank . To keep all of the boiler internal surfaces wet like a house boiler/Hydronic systom.

This is a very informative site
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

[teoman]

Nice, but those pumps are very expensive. I doubt i will ever recover the cost from fuel gains.

I was thinking of pushing 6 bars (100psi) through a 3.5 psi injector.

Injector has 4 nozzles.

[gumby79]

Agreed
Froms the proformance aspect there is no ROI.
He did show some of the pros/cons of other pumps
I like your air over water pumping idea. This would make on bord distillerie more difficult

[teoman]

Which air over water idea?

The pressure tank idea? Instead of the hammer arrestor?

Why would it make the distillerie idea more difficult? In my mind they are completely different circuits.

[gumby79]

Originally Posted by teoman

I
.... i can control the flow more precisely and i have some ideas on using compressed air instead of a pump (mainly because i am a diver and I have lots of compressed air tanks).
...
.

Dive /scuba tank air pressurizing the resavor. IS how i read this. Air over water. Am I following correct?

Problem I was trying to identify
At 100 psia* =pure water boils at 328°f
At 150psia * =359°f
*a=absolute not including the 14.69psi of ambant or altitude compensation.
Your boiler will have to ofer come this pressure


The waterhamer arrester would smooth the pulse of the multi diagram pumps like the Shurflo RV pump. Allowing for a more consistent injection volume. A presure regulator would do a better job,imho.

from the article
design, quite logically, on the required delivery of water or water-alcohol mixtures to our target. Take a simple hypothetical situation of 300 horsepower which, at a B.S.F.C. of .5 lb per horsepower per hour (150 lbs of fuel)...which equates to about 22.62 gallons of gasoline per hour (150lbs / 6.63 lbs per gallon = 22.62). If we are trying for 15% of the mass using 100% water the 15% is .15 x 150 = 22.5 lbs of water per hour.

22.5 lbs water / 8.33 lb per gallon = 2.7 gallons per hour water consumption. To calculate cc's we multiply 2.7 x 3785cc per gallon = 10,219 cc's. To calculate the cc's/minute of water needed we to divide by 60 which gives us 170cc's per minute.

We used the same planning when we were using actual fuel injectors to deliver water at Bonneville.

300hp only needs 170cc/min a very small volume
Using the 1.2 TDI VW Polo 2013 60hp and an assumed .5lb/hp hour
Water required/hr by mass=(.5×60)/6.63=4.52lbs/hr
15% of fule =4.52×15%=.68lbs water /hr
Convert to ga/hr.68÷8.33=.081ga/hr
Ga to cc/hr=308.4cc/hr
Cc/hr to cc/min 308.4÷60=5.14cc/min
15%h2o to fule at full power (60hp) =5.14cc/min
Now take the 5.14cc/min and calibrate your injectors .
Driving at hp peek ,1L would last194.55min

[teoman]

If with a scuba tank I do not think that i will be fiddling with the distillation unit directly doing its thing in to the active pressure chamber.

Because the distillation unit will also be under a lot of pressure then, and if it is sittin on the exhaust manifold and it runs dry then the temperature increase and cycles will probably weaken the material of the dirty water reservoir (or it has to be very very thick).

Using the scuba pressure idea is a good one in my opinion, the only difficulty is constructing a reservoir that has 1 opening on top and one on the bottom that is rated to 8 bars and that has a volume of several liters (i do not have the polo, i was going to sell the ML350 but could not do it yet so now i have the ML350 (2003 LPG) and Passat 1.8 Turbo (2011).)


The other idea was a DIY spark arrestor but it has a volume of 2-3L and does not have a diaphragm inside, it is initially filled with air, so as the pump pumps water it compresses the air (orientation of this device will be important). So basically a poor mans pressure regulator. But the idea originated from the notion that the pump may not like high pressure low flow and it will switch on off too much damaging itself.