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Old 11-29-2015, 07:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well we made some progress today. Husband & stepson worked on the car, figured out that stepson had disconnected something last year and no one had reconnected it (to disconnect the battery from everything else). So the P1639 code disappeared.

They drove around with the old IMA battery and it charged! (?? is there life in it still???)

Then they put the new IMA battery back in. No go. Some other error code (I forget at the moment). Then they took a closer look at battery and saw this wiring:



We're going to try to fix it ourselves (this would be the royal we, husband & stepson are the mechanics around here). The warranty is void as it is so breaking the seal isn't a big deal. The big deal of course is working on it safely.

I think they'll manage to fix it, but stay tuned... I was thinking maybe worst case we can use some of the "sticks" from this one and replace the bad ones in the old battery. But hopefully it won't come to that.


Last edited by rpearson; 11-30-2015 at 12:50 PM.. Reason: .
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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oh it's even "better" when you get into the battery innards...will post some pics in a bit.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Sorry to hear that. I suspect that someone mucked about with a Greentec case. I would not expect shoddy workmanship from Greentec.

Your old pack MIGHT have some life left in it. The IMA modules show some signs of improvement when subjected to extended self discharge. This effectively "bottom balances" them. Upon recharge, voltage depression is eliminated and capacity is increased. If you had the pack bypassed for many months, this is likely what has happened. You might see some useful life from it.

We obtained an HCH2 pack with 110K miles on it that coded. It sat on a shelf for 2.5 years. When I received it, it was at 59.6V (0.45V/cell). The pack performed great for 8 months before an AZ summer took its toll (the electric A/C compressor is very demanding of the IMA pack).

You might get some trouble free miles from it, but any life will be short-lived.

Once you're down to the stick-level, it's a whole new nightmare.

Steve
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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first off-- very interesting about why the car drove with the old battery. It certainly was disconnected for a long time, over a year. We're probably going to try to recondition it now as I'm pretty sure this new-to-me one is all bad.

Original IMA pack (well the second one I got, but Honda replaced it under warranty)


New-to-me pack:


Original battery wiring


new-to-me wiring

Last edited by rpearson; 11-30-2015 at 12:50 PM.. Reason: .
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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response from the seller -- he says GreenTec told him to snip a wire to "bypass a thermal
protection circuit that is a known problem." The seller also said that the car did run normally for a few months with this battery.

How does the inside look to you? It sure seems like it's missing a lot of stuff. But maybe we're wrong...
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I would expect that the installer would have seen that and said, WTF? If not, then it was probably done at installation. No offense if you're the installer.

The sticks in your first pack are clearly honda original with the PTC strips.

The sticks in the greentec are typical of what are used in aftermarket pack builds - chinese cells. When properly sorted by a competent builder, they can be very high quality.

There's a red wire that traces along the orange panel you removed. Does it have a 1" section cut from it? If so, good. That means the PTC circuit has been bypassed. If not, your new pack needs to be modified, or it should have a resistor where the Honda pack is cut.

I violently recommend you pursue grid charging/discharging vs. stick replacement/refurbishment. It's the difference between a mildly unpleasant afternoon vs. setting your head on fire and putting it out with a hammer.

DIY charger/discharger:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

You technically don't need the 12V PS since you can't run the fan w/o a PWM signal. You'll have to do it out of the car and if it works, probably every oil change thereafter.

Alternatively, Hybrid Automotive sells a turnkey solution that allows convenient charging in-car.

Steve
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Your pictures are very low resolution, and he may be correct.

The PTC circuit is the red wire and a blue wire with yellow stripe. Either or both could be cut.

It's usually not cut outside the pack, but near the junction board internally.

This actually might be an issue, and I'm sorry I didn't think of it.

Please confirm if your original pack is or is not cut. It will be a wire with a thick red insulation.

Last edited by S Keith; 11-29-2015 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:16 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The installer wasn't very knowledgeable, unfortunately. Or maybe didn't pay attention. I'm not sure. (we used to use him as a mechanic but he seems to not be as good as he used to). Anyway, next time I'll just pay my stepson to do the work. He's a much better mechanic.

Orange Panel (new one). No red wire whatsoever.


Old one with wire:

Last edited by rpearson; 11-29-2015 at 10:16 PM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
Your pictures are very low resolution, and he may be correct.

The PTC circuit is the red wire and a blue wire with yellow stripe. Either or both could be cut.

It's usually not cut outside the pack, but near the junction board internally.

This actually might be an issue, and I'm sorry I didn't think of it.

Please confirm if your original pack is or is not cut.
We don't see anything cut on the original pack. Here is a link to a couple of the pics of the original pack with higher resolution:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/7b33f8e7...9beo2_1280.jpg

https://40.media.tumblr.com/835f4a1d...9beo3_1280.jpg

sorry that this one doesn't have better lighting. I don't see any cut wires here either.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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On the new pack, the wires that were cut are indeed the blue wire with yellow stripe, and the red wire.

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