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Old 11-29-2015, 10:05 PM   #31 (permalink)
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and the missing tabs? (on top of the sticks) Are those just omitted with this battery or should they be there? I'm trying to find photos online but the majority are of the original Honda packs and not of something like a GreenTec pack.

It's starting to sound like maybe the wires are appropriately snipped, perhaps just not in the usual location.

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Old 11-29-2015, 10:17 PM   #32 (permalink)
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The tabs on your Honda pack are the PTC strips. Honda eliminated them part way through HCH1 production. Most Honda packs, whether they have the strips or not, have the wire cut. It's a deliberate cut approximately 1" long per a service bulletin.

To my knowledge, no aftermarket packs have those installed. If your Honda is cut, you are good. If not, you need to get an ECU update OR put in a resistor.

I'm kicking myself for not remembering this. I don't have to deal with it on my HCH2 or on my G1 insight with an aftermarket pack, and I forget it's an issue.

Again, if your wire on the Honda is not cut at the orange board, the fix is likely an ECU update or a 20 Ohm resistor in line with the cut blue/yellow wire.

Steve
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:37 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The guy who installed it for us didn't really know what he was doing (and didn't claim to). He didn't cut any wires or do anything more than swap out the batteries. The person we purchased it from says he did cut wires as per instructions from green tech. Based on nothing more than the esthetics of his workmanship I think it is probable that he botched the job. I say that because the wires are intertwined in a way that makes it quite difficult to see what he has done. I hope that I've succeeded with the two photos below.

The point of the top photo is to establish some labeling. I label the pins 1 to 6 from right to left as shown in the photo. In following table I summarize the wire colors that go to the given pin numbers. The wires coming from pins 1 & 2 are a few inches long and are not connected to anything. The wires coming from pins 3, 5, and 6 go directly into the harnesses. The wire coming from pin 4 goes to complex junction which is shown in the second photo.

pin # wire color

1 red
2 blue w/ long yellow stripe
3 yellow w/ short silver stripes
4 blue w/ short silver stripes
5 white w/ short silver stripes
6 blue w/ short silver stripes



53ROLBPh08wzbODVprSMAcXgxg0Vv_Vi5UbUEqbU-5A by rarichard, on Flickr
This next picture focuses on a junction. Three wires coming from the harnesses are all connected to the wire that is connected to pin 4. The wires coming from the harnesses are (a)blue w/ long black stipe and short silver stripes (b)yellow w/ long black stripe and short silver stripes, and (c)blue w/ short silver stripes.
Bs2fV583KN_HjvO0JSztB8V6_prisaCo3pcL1cgPLBI by rarichard, on Flickr

Apparently the fundamental unit in these things are cells which are supposed to be about 1.25 volts or something. Those are arranged in 20 tubes each of which contains 6 cells. Pairs of these tubes are connected in series. On our old battery if you measure the voltage across a pair of tubes it is about 15.5 V. On the refurbished battery the same measurement gives about 12.5 V. I don't know why the voltages are so different. I would like to make sure that the refurbished battery is wired correctly so that we can either use it or sell it on e-bay. If we can refurbish the old battery that would be great too. The first thing I want to establish is whether the wiring on the refurbished battery is correct or not.

Last edited by rpearson; 11-30-2015 at 02:53 PM..
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:43 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
The tabs on your Honda pack are the PTC strips. Honda eliminated them part way through HCH1 production. Most Honda packs, whether they have the strips or not, have the wire cut. It's a deliberate cut approximately 1" long per a service bulletin.

To my knowledge, no aftermarket packs have those installed. If your Honda is cut, you are good. If not, you need to get an ECU update OR put in a resistor.

I'm kicking myself for not remembering this. I don't have to deal with it on my HCH2 or on my G1 insight with an aftermarket pack, and I forget it's an issue.

Again, if your wire on the Honda is not cut at the orange board, the fix is likely an ECU update or a 20 Ohm resistor in line with the cut blue/yellow wire.

Steve
No need to kick yourself. Our previous problems were because we had a disconnected plug. I believe the new error code with the refurbished battery is P1600 but I'll need to check. With the plug connected the car ran with the old battery and no error codes. The old battery was charging, but way too fast. It went from 0 to 4 or 5 bars in a quarter mile of driving. I will confirm the error code on the refurbed battery once it I have put it back together properly and reinstalled it. Before I do that I want to convince myself it is wired properly.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:09 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Your image links are broken. No pictures are displayed.

Let's take this one step at a time. Let's ignore everything but the cut wires for the time being and troubleshoot:

Critical to resolution: Is there a one inch cut in your Honda pack like this:



If this wire is intact, it is the cause of your P1600, which is a generic IMA fault that often accompanies other IMA faults. The solution is to install a 20 Ohm resistor between the red wire and the blue/yellow wire.

The voltage disparities are not a concern given the following:

1) After installing your original IMA pack, it was operating normally and received a charge, and these measurements were made AFTER you observed charging.
2) Your "new" pack has not charged for any significant period since installed, and it may have been sitting around for some time before you received it.

While the cut wire may appear horribly shoddy, it is likely a non-issue. Please correct the pictures, and I will check my harness when I get home.

Steve
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:46 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Your pic is broken as well, but I can confirm that the wire in the original Honda pack is *not* cut. I'll fix those pics in a bit when I get a chance.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Oh also, the original owner of this Greentec battery told me after he cut the wires, and it didn't resolve the problem, he respliced them. But we're pretty sure he respliced them incorrectly, as the blue/yellow stripe is now spliced to a red. He did this four months after the new battery was in (when it started having problems, he called Greentec).

PS I think I fixed the pics let me know if they are still broken. (I can see them).
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:02 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Here's a direct link:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1/P1010247.jpg

Try that.

The Honda pack will be cut inside the junction board, not outside.

If your Honda isn't cut, you need the ECU update or splice in a 20 Ohm resistor between the red and blue/yellow wires.

The previous owner's car must have had the ECU update. If the ECU doesn't expect a signal on that line, it trips a code. If it expects a signal on that line, and it doesn't get one, it trips a code.

Another thread about this:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...new-31958.html

Here's the link to the TSB about junction board replacement:

http://honda-tech.com/attachments/in...el-a12-048.pdf

It doesn't discuss the specifics, but indicates that it is not to be repaired.
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:11 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpearson View Post
Oh also, the original owner of this Greentec battery told me after he cut the wires, and it didn't resolve the problem, he respliced them. But we're pretty sure he respliced them incorrectly, as the blue/yellow stripe is now spliced to a red. He did this four months after the new battery was in (when it started having problems, he called Greentec).

PS I think I fixed the pics let me know if they are still broken. (I can see them).
I can see them. I'll check my HCH1 harness when I get home and let you know.

So, it looks like 2 things are needed to get that pack working... potentially fix the splice job and install a 20 Ohm resistor.

BTW, this harness is for monitoring the 3 thermistors and the PTC strips. Simplistically stated, the PTC strips are basically a resistor that runs along the length of each stick with with a probe on each cell. If even a single cell gets dangerously warm, the strip resistance goes very high. The 20 PTC strips are connected in series between the red and blue/yellow leads. A 20 Ohm signal tells the BCM that there is no catastrophic cell heating going on. With that signal steady, the BCM operates normally based on the 3 thermistors.

No aftermarket packs contain PTC strips. Honda discontinued them on the HCH1 sometime in 04. They haven't been on an HCH2, G2 Insight, CR-Z or Accord Hybrid. However, you may the ECU that expects them.

Steve
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
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If we have them do an ECU update, do I ask them to flash it? I want to make sure to use the correct term when talking to them.

Although I think we can install a resistor. That would give us more flexibility if we refurbish the old battery, as they will both use the same ECU software (both have "PTC" -- although one is just pretending with the resistor). am I correct?

and thank you, your advice has been amazing!

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