A new Peoples' Car?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I'm currently looking at one of the three vans-with-windows from Peugeot/Ciitroen/Fiat - the Bipper/Nemo/Qubo.

On the basis of a people's car these seem perfect - cheap, big inside, practical, reasonably tough (courier companies take the van versions to Mars and back in terms of mileage) and economical.

Slow, but may be thats not a bad thing.

Do have a sense of what kind of fuel economy they would deliver at 80-mph ?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Patrick

If you can't turn left, then won't you have to drive a block past your intended street, make a right, go down a block, make a right, go down a block, and make another right? This will take you back to your intended turn (had you been allowed to turn left), but you have now driven 4 extra blocks and made 3 extra turns, some of which you may have had to slow down or stop for. Also, you might have to stop and wait now at the original intersection if you happen to hit the light wrong. Is there some study that shows this is more efficient than allowing left turns? Seems like a lot of extra mileage, and I'm not sure people will put up with it.

You pass the street that you would otherwise turn left on and enter to the right,into a cloverleaf collector lane which sweeps in a circle to deliver you to the 'slow' lane of the cross street.
As you emerge from the cloverleaf,the light has changed for the cross-traffic and you proceed without stopping, going 'left' as far as you want to go,hitting nothing but green lights.
Hackensack,N.J. used to have such a system.This is where the U.S.Highway system began.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech

I think there should be more round abouts. There's one in Branson, and it's a cool idea for a low traffic intersection. You turn right, circle around till you get where you need to go, then turn right again. Absolutely brilliant.

It has been reported that round-abouts require alot of momentum death,exactly what the world needs less of.
A cloverleaf system could be synchronized,and offer no appreciable loss of momentum during the transition.
There are no technological barriers to developing a traffic system in which a motorist can essentially maintain a constant velocity between departure and arrival at a destination.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by aerohead

You pass the street that you would otherwise turn left on and enter to the right,into a cloverleaf collector lane which sweeps in a circle to deliver you to the 'slow' lane of the cross street.
As you emerge from the cloverleaf,the light has changed for the cross-traffic and you proceed without stopping, going 'left' as far as you want to go,hitting nothing but green lights.
Hackensack,N.J. used to have such a system.This is where the U.S.Highway system began.

A cloverleaf at every intersection would require a lot more land and pavement, upping the expense a lot. It wouldn't be practical in an urban setting like Manhattan, where land values are sky high.

Why can't they time a left turn light?

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by aerohead

It has been reported that round-abouts require alot of momentum death,exactly what the world needs less of.
A cloverleaf system could be synchronized,and offer no appreciable loss of momentum during the transition.
There are no technological barriers to developing a traffic system in which a motorist can essentially maintain a constant velocity between departure and arrival at a destination.

We have four roundabouts in my town. You have to slow to about 20 mph to make it around the curve, but that's a lot better than coming to a full stop at a 4-way stop sign or light. Yes, sometimes you have to stop because of traffic coming around in front of you, but I'd estimate that about 50% of the time I've been able to just cruise right into the curve and out on my chosen street. It does take up quite a bit more land than a regular intersection, though (but not nearly as much as a cloverleaf would).

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by Patrick

A cloverleaf at every intersection would require a lot more land and pavement, upping the expense a lot. It wouldn't be practical in an urban setting like Manhattan, where land values are sky high.

We think of saving gas as a priority, but we may not be thinking of the unintended consequences. Cloverleafs and traffic circles (rotaries, roundabouts) do increase the amount of miles driven. (Every little bit of additional distance traveled adds up.) It may keep traffic moving, but it won't necessarily save fuel.

Also, if you are making mostly right turns, but virtually never making left turns, your steering and suspension will wear unevenly over time. This tends to be the case already with having the "right turn on red" option (which is better than not having it). I find myself favoring routes that encourage making more right turns.

Why can't they time a left turn light?

It usually requires a separate lane. Here in suburban NY left turn arrow signals are timed, but some people dawdle and poke, and often only half the line of cars waiting to go through the intersection actually get to proceed due to inattentiveness. Even the best timed traffic signals won't arouse drivers who are habitually asleep at the light.

[daring4]

What about all the diesel fuel burned to build new cloverleafs, roundabouts, etc. New intersections dont just pop up! I drive a 45,000 lb truck for work, it gets about 3 mpg. We have two for every crew, and this is just to repair electric utility lines!

Road construction must use incredible amounts of fuel to build a road for us to get 1mpg better!

Just shut it off and coast if you can, turn it off at red lights, thats how to save fuel!

I have two original peoples cars, a 62 beetle and a 65 type 3, they are cool but I'm thinking something based on the Yaris would go far.

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

Here in suburban NY left turn arrow signals are timed, but some people dawdle and poke, and often only half the line of cars waiting to go through the intersection actually get to proceed due to inattentiveness. Even the best timed traffic signals won't arouse drivers who are habitually asleep at the light.

To be fair, some people aren't asleep at the wheel, they just have to wait for green, reach for the starter switch, then crank for a second or two and let out the clutch. Not me, though.

[user removed]

Originally Posted by aerohead

If you can envision a driving environment where you don't apply your brakes 'til you arrive at your destination,the regenerative braking becomes superfluous and an unnecessary expense.

If the incorporation of regenerative braking only requires a single component with relatively little added weight then most regenerative braking can be very helpful to overall efficiency.

I would prefer that option to waiting for the driving population to be reeducated and the road system redesigned. Around here it takes the traffic engineers 6 months to figure out the new light is totally out of sequence with the other 12 in a 3 mile stretch .

Lightweight vehicle with no exotic materials. Individual in wheel regenerating IVTs, with a small capacity accumulator and a .6 to 1 liter engine with electric supercharging.

Practically speaking, I don't see any significant improvement in the abilities of the driving population to become as situationally aware as those of us who drive for mileage. It would be nice to know what stage in the cycle the upcoming traffic lights are approaching, but around here that would not stop the blast and brake stupidity I see daily.

Maybe at some point we may actually change driving habits, but I doubt it in my lifetime. In the interim we should try to change the way the machine approaches the optimization of the fuel used for the distance travelled. In essence to incorporate hypermiling techniques into the vehicle itself instead of relying on the drivers actions to accomplish the same.

regards
Mech

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by aerohead

If you can envision a driving environment where you don't apply your brakes 'til you arrive at your destination,the regenerative braking becomes superfluous and an unnecessary expense.

But of course that means you have to live in the flatlands. Try driving in the mountains without brakes :-)

Same applies to the "no left turn" plan. Works, sort of, if you only live & drive in an urban area. Not so swell if the 3 right turns you'd need to make would take you 20 miles or so.