New prius announced!

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Cd

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that frontal area had nothing to do with cD.
That number is the cDxA figure.
BTW, I always thought of the Karmann Ghia as a tiny car.
That was until I got a scale model of one and a Golf.
The two cars are about the same size.

Regarding the high drag figure on the new Prius, I'd like to ask what you all think is the cause.
Sure the fenders are flared, but not enough to disrupt attached flow.
The wheels are larger, but air curtains and lots of attention to the area can fix this. ( Thinking back once again to the 81 Camaro tested at A2 wind tunnel at .201 cD. The open wheel area was absolutely massive )
Is it that twisted beltline ?
I just don't get it.
Good aero is a bragging point on the Prius, and I would have thought Toyota would have got that figure down to something respectable.

The drag coefficient is dimensionless. Theoretically, from a HOT WHEELS to the real thing, the Cd would be identical, as long as critical Reynolds number was maintained.
Although THAT would be challenging at the HOT WHEELS scale ( Way beyond subsonic velocity with compressibility shockwave effects ).

[Blacktree]

Originally Posted by Nathan jones

Sports cars are sports cars and eco cars are eco cars, there is no in between.

Originally Posted by freebeard

Karmann Ghia? Fiero?

There absolutely is an in between. I would even argue that sporty vs efficient is a false dichotomy. Especially considering that making a car more efficient can also make it more sporty.

It seems Toyota have decided to make the Prius a little sportier (or at least look sportier), to attract more buyers. Considering the waning Prius sales, you can't blame them for changing things up.

[Isaac Zachary]

I think there are different priorities different people have. I have no use for a +300hp sports car other than bragging rights. Maybe if on-ramps existed in my part of the world there'd be a use case for such a vehicle. I don't need +300hp to get around my icy, snowy 25mph town nor to drive over the icy, snowy highways out here that have no stoplights or stop signs to speed away from.

[Nathan jones]

Originally Posted by Blacktree

There absolutely is an in between. I would even argue that sporty vs efficient is a false dichotomy. Especially considering that making a car more efficient can also make it more sporty.

It seems Toyota have decided to make the Prius a little sportier (or at least look sportier), to attract more buyers. Considering the waning Prius sales, you can't blame them for changing things up.

If it does 80mpg, 0-60 in 5 and handle like an exige I will concede, but unfortunately it won't.

The new model is quite contrary to the original aims of Takeshi uchiyamada, the guy who pioneered the first model and will phase out like regular car lines, ethics different to it's name. The simplicity of it's focus was what made it so successful, doing what customers want clouds direction.

...If the older model 3 or 4 continued in the UK it would have moderate to low sales but steady. Sometimes losing money still helps to control a market

[Nathan jones]

Think like birds, a Pidgeon cannot glide on thermals and a buzzard cannot chase cars. Same thing but birds are not made of iron and plastic lol

[Piotrsko]

Being a glider pilot and avid thermal hunting modeler, pigeons can and do fly thermals, but usually don't mostly because thats where their preditors hang out Been there, got the medal, went home.

No clue about buzzards however.

[Isaac Zachary]

Usually things come in threes, pick two:

Economic/sporty/reliable.

Somethings are also an illusion. The word "efficient" can mean an economic car, but when it comes Tesla owners who love to talk about how efficient their cars are, we are no longer talking about economic. If they were economic, I would consider buying a Model 3, but such a costly car is out of the question for me.

I am curious to what the projected TCO would be between a Gen 4 Prius and a Gen 5 will be. It looks like the cheapest Gen 5 will be some $3,000 more expensive than the cheapest Gen 4 (going by MSRP). The real question will be how do the Primes compare.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Cd

I always thought of the Karmann Ghia as a tiny car.
That was until I got a scale model of one and a Golf.
The two cars are about the same size.

Might be the case to some older generations of the Golf. Just like most other cars, they've been growing noticeably at each newer generation.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Galloping goal posts. A 45MPG sports car doesn't exist?

The Fiero got 50MPG highway,

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I would have to add that the fiero got 50 mpg when the speed limit was 55 mph. Its a little bit mixed now but the speed limit on average is 75 mph now here in the USA.
Also I would just add the fiero had fooled people into thinking it was a sports car, but i don't really recall the standards for the time. It was a rough time to be a sports car lol.
From what I've heard from normal people in the real world they won't drive a prius because they are slow as balls and look like balls.
So if it was like standard old v6 accord quick without wringing it out like a rag 24/7 and looks good enough to make people actually think about buying it, i think their design and sales goals have been met. For the most part as long as toyota improved on the reliability and still gets 50s that would be awesome.

[freebeard]

Also I would just add the fiero had fooled people into thinking it was a sports car, but i don't really recall the standards for the time. It was a rough time to be a sports car lol.

Pontiac wanted a sports car, but GM didn't think the market was big enough for Corvette to share with them. The next [unbuilt] generation was what the mid-engine corvette today.

Originally Posted by Nathan jones

Think like birds, a Pidgeon cannot glide on thermals and a buzzard cannot chase cars

My forebears had a story about riding in the back of an open-top car in the 1920s and having a buzzard regurgitate on them. They do it as a defensive measure.