Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-02-2008, 12:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
News: Airlines Reduce Speed to Save Fuel

One of the top rules of EcoDriving is to slow your cruising speed to save fuel. So the question is answered, Pilots do hypermile...



According to CNN, Airlines are slowing their cruising speeds in an effort to cut back on fuel consumption. In many cases it amounts to less than 5 minutes, but an appreciable amount of fuel is not burned. How many times have you arrived at your destination early, only to find the gate occupied and there you sit, idling?

RH77

__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-02-2008, 01:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
Legend in my own mind
 
trikkonceptz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Homestead, Fl.
Posts: 927

Evil Pumpkin - '08 Scion xD RS 1.0 #1633
90 day: 35.45 mpg (US)

Silent Silver Killer - '10 Honda Insight EX
90 day: 51.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Smart thinking .. now will they P&G in the air? Shut off their engine in approach? LOL or simply over inflate their tires for less landing and take off resistance?

Quick tag some planes with Ecomodder decals ....
__________________
Thx NoCO2; "The biggest FE mod you can make is to adjust the nut behind the wheel"

I am a precisional instrument of speed and aeromatics
If your knees bent in the opposite direction......what would a chair look like???





  Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2008, 03:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by trikkonceptz View Post
Quick tag some planes with Ecomodder decals ....
Yeah, a quick EM cling on the tray-table should do it

Come to think, they don't really clean planes like they used to...

Seriously though, maybe some pamphlets in the seatback pocket or even the rental car, or the hotel drawer! This could go nationwide

RH77
__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2008, 03:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
ECO-Evolution
 
Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,482

Iron Horse (retired) - '97 Iron horse Intrepid

Ninja - '08 Kawasaki 250R
90 day: 76.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 43 Times in 32 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RH77 View Post
Seriously though, maybe some pamphlets in the seatback pocket or even the rental car, or the hotel drawer! This could go nationwide

RH77
We AndrewJ to make up some pamphlets and make it a link so that when you click on them there is a printer friendly version so that each member can print them out at his station and deperse as necessary.
__________________
"Judge a person by their questions rather than their answers."

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2008, 06:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
Liberti
 
LostCause's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Posts: 504

Thunderbird - '96 Ford Thunderbird
90 day: 27.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
It's nice to hear airlines are saving gas, but airplanes are limited in their ability to "hypermile."

Plane's will get their max range (i.e. mileage) when flying at a speed that maximizes their L/D (lift to drag) ratio. The L/D ratio varies with altitude and climatic conditions, but I bet most airlines know exactly where it exists on a given flight in every condition.

Fuel savings also come from modifying the rate of climb, descent, and amount of fuel carried for a flight. There are a lot of variables, but airlines are pretty restricted by regulations. Unfortunately, airlines are pretty much at the complete mercy of fluctuations in fuel prices.

I know someone on this board is at least a commuter pilot, so hopefully he'll elaborate.

- LostCause
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2008, 07:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
EcoFodder
 
hvatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 74

Jetta TDI - '00 VW Jetta
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by trikkonceptz View Post
Smart thinking .. now will they P&G in the air? Shut off their engine in approach? LOL or simply over inflate their tires for less landing and take off resistance?

Quick tag some planes with Ecomodder decals ....
Domestic flying is pretty environmentally damaging. The jet contrails are higher in the atmosphere so make a more potent GHG. Driving, even by yourself, in a fuel efficient car is better than flying in a full modern plane.

http://www.econewmexico.com/driving-vs-flying-co2

Now, if you want to fly to Chile or England, then that's better than driving or boating. Boating is not very nice for the environment.

I wonder how practical it would be to run a plane on hydrogen (generated of course from nuclear power)? That's the only thing that would really help. I don't think flying more slowly would really improve the GHG output that much.
__________________
I put the animated icon together in Photoshop, feel free to use it if you like!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2008, 11:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
Liberti
 
LostCause's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Posts: 504

Thunderbird - '96 Ford Thunderbird
90 day: 27.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
I was under the impression that boating was the most efficient form of transport available. While boats operate in a liquid (draggy) environment, they are the slowest and "densest" transporter of goods. What they lack in efficiency they make up in volume. This doesn't apply to the QM2, but goods shipping in general.

Ofcourse, the most efficient way to get to England would be sailing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvatum
I wonder how practical it would be to run a plane on hydrogen (generated of course from nuclear power)? That's the only thing that would really help. I don't think flying more slowly would really improve the GHG output that much.
In the 1950's, the Airforce flew a B36 Peacemaker with a reactor onboard. It didn't power the aircraft, but that was the eventual intent.

I'd be worried about the energy density of hydrogen, which is pretty low compared to gasoline. Unless some type of substrate method takes off that increases fuel density, planes will either be severely handicapped performance-wise or space-wise.

I'd be more interested in the return of the Zeppelin. The ultimate marriage of hydrogen and aviation.



- LostCause
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2008, 01:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCause View Post
It's nice to hear airlines are saving gas, but airplanes are limited in their ability to "hypermile."

Plane's will get their max range (i.e. mileage) when flying at a speed that maximizes their L/D (lift to drag) ratio. The L/D ratio varies with altitude and climatic conditions, but I bet most airlines know exactly where it exists on a given flight in every condition.

Fuel savings also come from modifying the rate of climb, descent, and amount of fuel carried for a flight. There are a lot of variables, but airlines are pretty restricted by regulations. Unfortunately, airlines are pretty much at the complete mercy of fluctuations in fuel prices.
On many airliners, there's a computer system on-board that calculates the most efficient climb and decent. The article states that the programming may be tweaked.

As far as cruise, any aircraft has a "most-efficient" velocity and often times a faster, more reasonable rate of speed, per the manufacturer. It could simply be that they're using the "sweet spot" instead of "hurry-up and get there".

Of course, there's ATC and other traffic to deal with that eats up the fuel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvatum View Post
Domestic flying is pretty environmentally damaging. The jet contrails are higher in the atmosphere so make a more potent GHG. Driving, even by yourself, in a fuel efficient car is better than flying in a full modern plane.
True, but I don't think it's someplace to start. A full aircraft is more efficient than one that isn't.

For my job, I have to travel -- it's a given. I can either drive and get 25-34 MPG on the trip, or share a ride with 95 other people in a plane and get there quicker, and likely more efficiently (depending on the aircraft).

RH77
__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 12:29 AM   #9 (permalink)
EcoFodder
 
hvatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 74

Jetta TDI - '00 VW Jetta
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCause View Post
I was under the impression that boating was the most efficient form of transport available. While boats operate in a liquid (draggy) environment, they are the slowest and "densest" transporter of goods. What they lack in efficiency they make up in volume. This doesn't apply to the QM2, but goods shipping in general.

Ofcourse, the most efficient way to get to England would be sailing.
Ok, that's true

But if you want to get there FAST then you're better off driving or flying then boating, speed boats get crap mileage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCause View Post
In the 1950's, the Airforce flew a B36 Peacemaker with a reactor onboard. It didn't power the aircraft, but that was the eventual intent.

I'd be worried about the energy density of hydrogen, which is pretty low compared to gasoline. Unless some type of substrate method takes off that increases fuel density, planes will either be severely handicapped performance-wise or space-wise.
Yeah, I think that would be the problem. Also, just so we're clear, I don't mean putting a reactor on a plane, but using power generated on the ground to create hydrogen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCause View Post
I'd be more interested in the return of the Zeppelin. The ultimate marriage of hydrogen and aviation.

- LostCause
hehe, yeah that would be cool. It would really be an experience to take a cruise in a Zeppelin. If it we're affordable I'd love to sign up for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH77
For my job, I have to travel -- it's a given. I can either drive and get 25-34 MPG on the trip, or share a ride with 95 other people in a plane and get there quicker, and likely more efficiently (depending on the aircraft).
Oh, I love flying too. I've nothing against it, but under no circumstances is flying in any plane more environmentally friendly than driving a really fuel efficient car. The raw amount of GHGs released is greater, and they are released higher and so more damaging. Flying is safer and faster though
__________________
I put the animated icon together in Photoshop, feel free to use it if you like!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 03:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
Future EV Owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sussex Wisconsin
Posts: 674

Wannabe - '05 Honda Civic LX
90 day: 40.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hvatum View Post
I wonder how practical it would be to run a plane on hydrogen (generated of course from nuclear power)?


__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EcoModding for Beginners: Getting great gas mileage. SVOboy EcoModding Central 55 08-20-2012 11:34 PM
News: Utah Considers Joining 80 MPH Speed Limit Club MetroMPG General Efficiency Discussion 68 11-04-2009 07:25 PM
News: Switzerland cutting speed limits to reduce emissions MetroMPG General Efficiency Discussion 7 09-18-2008 12:02 PM
Basic EcoDriving Techniques and Instrumentation SVOboy Instrumentation 2 11-17-2007 11:38 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com