Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-13-2014, 07:46 AM   #151 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Bataleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: South Africa
Posts: 41
Thanks: 18
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I was just referring to the consumption of 109.21 L/100km.

I assume it must be a typo because my little 1.4 Volkswagen Polo only uses 6.5 L/100km 1.1 gal/100 miles seems accurate though.

I cannot wait for EVs become mainstream.

Cheers!

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-13-2014, 02:30 PM   #152 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,780

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,236
Thanked 2,796 Times in 1,755 Posts
Yes that is a typo.

2.59 L/100 km

I got the cord hook with a dummy socket, for the EVSE:
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2014, 09:49 PM   #153 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,780

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,236
Thanked 2,796 Times in 1,755 Posts
I am responding to the Five Critical Changes post on Plugin Cars: Five Critical Changes for the Next Nissan LEAF | PluginCars.com

My list of 5 improvements for the Leaf (or any EV!):

1) Lower aerodynamic drag, by lowering the Cd from 0.28 (claimed, or 0.32 measured by Car&Driver: Drag Queens: Aerodynamics Compared – Comparison Test – Car and Driver ) down to 0.21-0.23. This is entirely possible with the same general chassis for, as shown by the Renault Eolab. Make the active elements fixed in their lower drag positions, and the range of the Leaf would be increased.

A lot. Possibly as much as 2X what it is now.

This can be done by moving the cabin forward, and making the back a bit longer - and taper the top and sides (and the underside) so the air is able to flow back into the place it was before the car punched its way through. The rear wheel track needs to be (slightly) narrower than the front - when the car is lower drag - it coasts much better. (See #4 below.)

2) Direct heating windshield defroster. This would make the penalty of running the defroster almost negligible.

3) Reconfigure the battery pack to provide more rear seat legroom. Put some additional modules under the hood, and under the hatch floor.

Make the seats much slimmer - if they are well designed, they will be more comfortable, weigh less, and take up a lot less room inside the car - making that space available for the people in the car.

4) Make coasting the default, and add 3 levels (or continuously variable of) regen controlled by the shifter, or paddles on the steering wheel. This would encourage ecodriving, and increase the range by using the kinetic energy of the moving car the most efficient way possible - by using it to move the car forward.

Regen is great - for slowing the car.

5) Use video mirrors. (And if required, put tiny optical mirrors, as well.) This will reduce the frontal area and the Cd - and it will eliminate the need for the bulging headlights. I have been driving with video mirrors for about 6 years now, and they work very well, and they are better than optical mirrors in many ways. Mine are inexpensive backup cameras, so with better "F stop" controls, they will be better than optical mirrors in virtually every way.

I think these changes will make the range with the same battery it has today much longer than it is now. If/when we get a better battery, then the range gets even longer and/or the price comes down.

It's all good.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
MetroMPG (12-29-2014), mikeyjd (01-04-2015), redpoint5 (12-29-2014)
Old 12-28-2014, 11:33 PM   #154 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 14,649
Thanks: 3,668
Thanked 4,854 Times in 3,863 Posts
Quote:
2) Direct heating windshield defroster. This would make the penalty of running the defroster almost negligible.
I thought those electrically heated windshields took the whole output of the alternator as long as they were on.

And 2x the range with a 0.07 drop in Cd?
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
Cobb (12-29-2014)
Old 12-29-2014, 07:10 AM   #155 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,311 Times in 965 Posts
I thought the Leaf had an electric windshield? Mercedes offers it as an option but none of the cars I have seen coming through have had it. The MB also offers paddle shifters to select between three modes of regen on the fly. One of which uses the front radar to set the amount depending on the distance to the next car.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sendler For This Useful Post:
Cobb (12-29-2014)
Old 12-29-2014, 10:25 AM   #156 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,780

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,236
Thanked 2,796 Times in 1,755 Posts
Only the VW e-Golf and the Mercedes B Class Electric as an option (at least) has a direct heated windshield defroster. The e-Golf also has default coasting and 3 levels of selectable regen. It also has 3 levels of drive power.

The rear defroster hardly changes the range at all. So the front would be about the same.

If the Leaf dropped from 0.32 to 0.21 and also got default coasting, then I think the range could be doubled.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 10:39 AM   #157 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,294

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,065
Thanked 5,946 Times in 3,080 Posts
Aw crud! I thought your post was describing 5 changes that were actually coming!

And I was excited for the Leaf.

Then I read the plugincars article.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (12-29-2014)
Old 12-29-2014, 10:42 AM   #158 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 276 Times in 226 Posts
I doubt they will change the shape that much. Lots of retooling needed for that. Maybe the next EV after the Leaf? Minor tweeks in the front or rear bumpers isnt that difficult. Reprogramming is an idea, but as is you already got to shift to drive twice for eco mode. Shift 3 times for the even more eco mode?

Not sure how much room is under the hood for batteries. The rep at the presentation I went to said they wanted the hood area to look like a regular car.

I think the Leaf is more of a proof of concept vehicle vs the end all EV. Testing the waters to see if its a go in this market.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 11:53 AM   #159 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 30
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
I am responding to the Five Critical Changes post on Plugin Cars: Five Critical Changes for the Next Nissan LEAF | PluginCars.com

My list of 5 improvements for the Leaf (or any EV!):

1) Lower aerodynamic drag, by lowering the Cd from 0.28 (claimed, or 0.32 measured by Car&Driver: Drag Queens: Aerodynamics Compared Comparison Test Car and Driver ) down to 0.21-0.23. This is entirely possible with the same general chassis for, as shown by the Renault Eolab. Make the active elements fixed in their lower drag positions, and the range of the Leaf would be increased.

A lot. Possibly as much as 2X what it is now.

This can be done by moving the cabin forward, and making the back a bit longer - and taper the top and sides (and the underside) so the air is able to flow back into the place it was before the car punched its way through. The rear wheel track needs to be (slightly) narrower than the front - when the car is lower drag - it coasts much better. (See #4 below.)

2) Direct heating windshield defroster. This would make the penalty of running the defroster almost negligible.

3) Reconfigure the battery pack to provide more rear seat legroom. Put some additional modules under the hood, and under the hatch floor.

Make the seats much slimmer - if they are well designed, they will be more comfortable, weigh less, and take up a lot less room inside the car - making that space available for the people in the car.

4) Make coasting the default, and add 3 levels (or continuously variable of) regen controlled by the shifter, or paddles on the steering wheel. This would encourage ecodriving, and increase the range by using the kinetic energy of the moving car the most efficient way possible - by using it to move the car forward.

Regen is great - for slowing the car.

5) Use video mirrors. (And if required, put tiny optical mirrors, as well.) This will reduce the frontal area and the Cd - and it will eliminate the need for the bulging headlights. I have been driving with video mirrors for about 6 years now, and they work very well, and they are better than optical mirrors in many ways. Mine are inexpensive backup cameras, so with better "F stop" controls, they will be better than optical mirrors in virtually every way.

I think these changes will make the range with the same battery it has today much longer than it is now. If/when we get a better battery, then the range gets even longer and/or the price comes down.

It's all good.
I understand the reuse of an exist chassis for build cost reduction but I agree that the platform has a lot to be desired. The versa it's built on is the lightest chassis in the Nissan line up at a 2400ish pound curb weight. The Leaf is 850 ish pounds more at 3250ish.

I have no need for back seat. I do need a 200 mile range at hwy speeds several limes a month and what I would save in fuel over my current vehicle would pay for it as a second vehicle. Why not offer something 1st gen insight sized semi sporty looking commuter? Between a better Cd and if it could get back that 850lb it gained as a EV I see that 200 mile range is easily met.

The versa and leaf is really not a visually pleasing car so almost zero attraction by younger drivers so I see broadening the customer base.

Offer a range extending battery packs (possibly capacitor based) that can be easily installed by the owner. Make it portable about the size of a large briefcase adding about 10-15 miles to the range. Make it where it can be charged independently of the car. This feature alone would be bennificial if somebody ran the car dead, they could grab a charged pack plug it in and get the car to a place to charge the onboard battery. AAA keeping them on their rescue vehicles could get their customers off the road. You get somewhere that plug in is not available where the car is parked you could take the battery in and charge it at say hotels or even office during the day if your range is borderline to the next place you can get a full charge.


The car as it sits:
I have a buddy that's into EV and been riding EV bicycles for years. He recently picked up a Leaf and I've had a few rides in it. It's amazing how well it works. It drives like another economy car. It's his only car (if you don't count his RV converted 40ft long bus that he is trying to figure out if he can make a toad out of the leaf and have it charge while being dragged behind the bus) but he has good friends that live next door that he can barrow a vehicle when longer range is needed. It covers about 90% of his travel needs the rest are mostly battery range issue or just plain the size. His complaints are the same as mine, single guy and the only time his back seat has been sat in giving people rides showing them the car. He would actually like a big flat cargo area of a hatch back for his dogs

The thing I like the best is the electronic package and link to his smart phone. He has his car programmed to warm up or cool down depending on the season so it's ready to go in the morning while it's still plugged into th charger. Just unplugs from his house and off he goes. Same deal with going home just before he leaves he picks up his smart phone and tells the car to turn on the a/c. I think he now has access to charging at work (purchaser for local transit) if needed but lives only 6 miles away so rarely needed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 01:27 PM   #160 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,780

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,236
Thanked 2,796 Times in 1,755 Posts
The Leaf is similar to the Versa, but they are not the same platform. The wheelbase and track dimensions are significantly different, and the battery being in the floorpan make it completely different.

By the time the second gen Leaf comes out (2016? 2017?) it will be "due" a major refresh, so retooling is already on the table, I think. And since it is the first true production electric car, I would have to assume that Nissan was counting on a major redesign.

I think they are strongly hinting (as is Tesla, and VW, too) that this next gen EV will have a breakthrough battery, and hopefully, they make the design significantly better car to take full advantage of the new battery.

__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
electric car, leaf

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com