Nissan Leaf... the well thought out Volt killer

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Cd

( regarding range anxiety )

Whatever happened to the idea of having charging stations installed at Nissan dealerships ?
Almost every town in America has a Nissan dealership nearby.

You haven't been to the upper Midwest then. We have zero foreign car dealerships in town and that is partly why there is not much here besides 4x4s and Cadillacs. The nearest foreign dealership is 60 miles away, and it's not Nissan. I think the nearest Nissan dealership is 90 miles.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

BTW, the DOD allowed on the Leaf is 95% = 22.8kWh. They must have a very stable and robust chemistry and construction. This is at least 2.5X more usable capacity than the Volt; while the total capacity difference is 1.5X.

Maybe, but the difference in usable capacity comes from the Volt being a PHEV and having to live up to CA's 150k/10 year hybrid warranty and the federal 100k/10 year hybrid warranty. Nissan doesn't have to do that so they can allow for usable capacity. The Leaf may or may not have better chemistry.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Ryland

What is going to kill their range in the winter is not the heater but the lack of battery heating, you come out ahead even if you use energy from the batteries to heat the batteries so they are closer to their ideal working temperature, ideally you would have a battery heater that draws power from the charging station but when that is not an option you are going to get more range with batteries warmed using energy from that same pack then trying to drive on a cold set of batteries.

That really depends on the battery chemistry... Some batteries won't see much of a drop in usable capacity even below freezing. Others will. Depending on the internal resistance it also may not be a problem because if it's high enough use alone will provide enough heat to bring the pack temperatures up above freezing.

[cfg83]

Frank -

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You haven't been to the upper Midwest then. We have zero foreign car dealerships in town and that is partly why there is not much here besides 4x4s and Cadillacs. The nearest foreign dealership is 60 miles away, and it's not Nissan. I think the nearest Nissan dealership is 90 miles.

Yeah, I'd never consider a Leaf because of range anxiety, and I have a "real" infrastructure in Los Angeles. At least at the dealership it would take only 30 minutes with the fast charger, which could be a coffee/wifi moment :

2011 Nissan LEAF: Charging Capabilities Could Make Range Limitless - All Cars Electric

The LEAF;s 48 lithium ion modules offer several different charging methods. Of course there is the standard 100 volt method which takes around 16 hours to charge, and then there the 220 volt connection that cuts the charge time down to half, but what about the fast charge option?
This fast charge feature allows the batteries to be charged to 80 % of its capacity in just 30 minutes adding tremendous convenience to the vehicle. Additionally, in a mere 10 minutes of charging using the fast charge setup you will be able to gain 31 miles of additional range. 5 minutes would get you 15 miles further down the road.
This charging feature makes the vehicle extremely versatile and usable under nearly any situation. A dine in at the local fast food joint would give you nearly enough time to refill the battery. Long road trips, full of frequent stops at rest areas would be possible if these places had fast charging systems.
In addition to the vehicle's charging capability is the vehicle's ability to show you where recharging stations are located within the useful range of the vehicle. This system works in conjunction with the car's GPS system.
In theory the system would work to extend the vehicles range to an almost limitless amount, but there is a catch. The charging system would cost around $45,000 to install it in your own home. For most buyers, the cost would far exceed their budgets and would not be a sensible option.

I wonder how much the juice would cost. And is Nissan going to invest in a fast-charger at all their dealerships? This dealership option is "feasible" under the slow roll-out plan :

Kent couple to be among first to purchase new Nissan Leaf electric car

Nissan cut off reservations for the Leaf last month at 20,000, as it slowly rolls out the new car in the states of Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona and Tennessee. The company plans to increase the availability of cars next spring with a full market rollout in 2012, according to the Nissan Web site. Nissan reports it is limiting its initial production of cars in order to provide a higher level of customer service.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

Hello -

Partially answering my own question :

Don't Blink In Disbelief As BP Offers Electric Car Refilling - All Cars Electric

[BP will allow] a network of electric car charging stations to be installed at its filling stations.
But while there are more than 11,000 BP owned gas stations nationwide, the partnership announced last week will only see 45 of its filling stations get kitted out with electric vehicle chargers.
Ecotality’s Blink DC Fast Charge stations, capable of providing a full recharge to cars like the 2011 Nissan Leaf in under 30 minutes will be installed in select BP and ARCO filling stations in in Arizona, California, Oregon, Washington and Tennessee. It is hoped these fast chargers will be operational as early as March 2011.

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

Re: cold: my electric bicycle has REALLY slowed down in speed, accel, and range now with 40-60 deg temps.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You haven't been to the upper Midwest then. We have zero foreign car dealerships in town and that is partly why there is not much here besides 4x4s and Cadillacs. The nearest foreign dealership is 60 miles away, and it's not Nissan. I think the nearest Nissan dealership is 90 miles.

And thats why we call them fly over states.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Cd

Almost every town in America has a Nissan dealership nearby.

Sorry, but it seems like you need to brush up on the difference between town and city. Most towns don't have auto dealerships of any kind.

Then of course in this part of the country, it's not at all difficult to find places where you can go 100 miles or more between towns of any sort, and further between ones big enough to have a gas station :-)

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by tjts1

And thats why we call them fly over states.

Hurray for that!

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Re: cold: my electric bicycle has REALLY slowed down in speed, accel, and range now with 40-60 deg temps.

You've been sourcing the same batteries for your EV bike that the Leaf uses?