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Old 12-25-2015, 09:13 PM   #141 (permalink)
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I rode a 1971 Honda CB350 200 miles on the original tires when they were 40 years old in 2011. Personally I think the old natural rubber was better. Seen Michelins dry rotted about the same in 6 years and no recourse from Michelin, WITH 90% OF THE TREAD LEFT.

I did ride very carefully, never above 45 mph and always sensitive to any change in ride quality.

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Old 03-11-2016, 12:57 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Found a good video on this topic:

Top 10 reasons not to put nitrogen in your tires

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Old 03-11-2016, 11:06 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
Nice B-S- explainations...
Why are his explanations BS?
They seem pretty legit to me. I don't mind his use of words to get the point across. He does throw the BS word around quite liberally.

Or is BS = Bachelor of Science?
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:58 AM   #144 (permalink)
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I like it, he points out that nitrogen does have slight advantages, but that those are trivial.

So air does indeed seep out slightly faster than pure nitrogen. That must be the oxygen in the air, the nitrogen stays behind.
If you crave the advantages of nitrogen over air, small as they may be, you'll get those anyway over time as the oxygen vanishes faster than the nitrogen does.
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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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Old 03-12-2016, 10:19 AM   #145 (permalink)
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He is full of sxxt.

says the lose of air is because of bad seals or bad stems etc. THe person giving the example didn't say he got new tires. Just said that over the next 6 months the nito didn't lose as much pressure.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:07 AM   #146 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
He is full of sxxt.

says the lose of air is because of bad seals or bad stems etc. THe person giving the example didn't say he got new tires. Just said that over the next 6 months the nito didn't lose as much pressure.
"But mate, you are wrong!"
Unless you pay for nitrogen in your tires and feel the need to justify the money well spent.

What I understood was that permeation is so small that it's essentially insignificant. And that if one loses considerable air from their tires, it's due to a leak and not air permeation.

Also the main point of the intro example is to show how biased, inconsistent and unscientific consumer opinions can be. Jimmy James from the example used "inaccurate air pumps" before and now only checks pressures 5 months later. So two bad practices which make his findings completely useless. 5 months later the season might have changed from winter to summer, so the temperature difference could make the pressure appear unchanged.
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Old 03-19-2016, 01:16 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Um if I recall my chemistry class correctly nitrogen has an atomic weight of 14 and oxygen is at 16. So the nitrogen would be more likely to seep out unless there is an oxidation reaction occurring converting the oxygen into an organic oxide?
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I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
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Old 03-19-2016, 03:49 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech View Post
Um if I recall my chemistry class correctly nitrogen has an atomic weight of 14 and oxygen is at 16. So the nitrogen would be more likely to seep out unless there is an oxidation reaction occurring converting the oxygen into an organic oxide?
Atomic weight is not the same as atomic size.
The electrons are grouped in layers around the nucleus and more electrons just fill the voids in the outer layer. As there are more protons in the oxygen nucleus the pull is stronger too.
The combined effect means that the heavier oxygen atoms are in fact slightly smaller than nitrogen atoms. The science in the youtube vid is solid.

Oxygen does indeed seep out slightly faster than nitrogen. Which I checked by trying to light a match in a plasic bag I filled with air from a tire that had been aired years before. I could strike it but it would not burn.
When I blew the same bag up I could light and burn a match inside, even thoug the air I exhaled must have had slightly less oxygen than ambient air.
The air inside the tire had even less. Apparently it escaped over time and only the nitrogen stayed behind.

Oxygen seepage leaves you with increasingly pure nitrogen. Use air.
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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

When I drive a car I'm a driver. When I'm sitting on my couch I'm a biker.
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:59 AM   #149 (permalink)
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I'd like to put my $0.02 cents in on this matter- I work as a service valet at my local Volkswagen dealership. Customers often come in to have their tire pressures checked and tire dummy light reset. This service is provided free of charge. However, sometimes certain customers insist I fill their tires with nitrogen. We have a nitrogen machine in the shop, and I could do it, but it is expensive and nobody wants to pay for it. So my boss tells me to use regular air.

The way I see it, regular air is almost 80% nitrogen. Nitrogen is a colorless, odorless, neutrally buoyant fluid when released into the atmosphere. If I were to line up two identical cars, one car with nitrogen filled tires and one with standard air, there would be no appreciable difference between the two. So I do not feel bad about misleading the customers. Besides, it's free!

So, that's my two cents!
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:57 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Try this: We use special 80% pure tire grade nitrogen".

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