Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-04-2010, 08:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 744

redyaris - '07 Toyota Yaris
Team Toyota
90 day: 45.54 mpg (US)

Gray - '07 Suzuki GS500 F
Motorcycle
90 day: 70.4 mpg (US)

streamliner1 - '83 Honda VT500 streamliner
Motorcycle
90 day: 75.63 mpg (US)

White Whale - '12 Sprinter 2500 Cargo Van
90 day: 22.01 mpg (US)
Thanks: 81
Thanked 75 Times in 67 Posts
If rules are made to be bocken? then how close can one get to the edge of the rule with out quite bracking it? Would an EV with a tiny Honda 25cc industrial engine or equivelent be considered a hybrid? quite frankly the cause may be erelavent, the question is how to get around the problem rules.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-04-2010, 09:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,257

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 287 Times in 200 Posts
I would call it a hybrid, and I bet the MTO would agree. But you'd better have a cat on that 25cc engine, and an evap system on its gas tank!

MetroMPG's speculation that this is a crackdown on fraud makes sense to me. Hopefully, they come up with a way for Ontarians to prove their EV conversion is legitimate. Maybe presenting evidence of the conversion to a court or something.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 10:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 744

redyaris - '07 Toyota Yaris
Team Toyota
90 day: 45.54 mpg (US)

Gray - '07 Suzuki GS500 F
Motorcycle
90 day: 70.4 mpg (US)

streamliner1 - '83 Honda VT500 streamliner
Motorcycle
90 day: 75.63 mpg (US)

White Whale - '12 Sprinter 2500 Cargo Van
90 day: 22.01 mpg (US)
Thanks: 81
Thanked 75 Times in 67 Posts
Most, if not all jurisdictions have motor vehical safety inspection stations. If there is a problem with fraudulent claims at the registration office, then all that needs to be done is to have the vehical go through the inspection station and have the station certify that the vehical meets the standard set by the province for an electrical vehical. That should not take more than a few months to get the standards established! "...trust me I'm from the government and I'm here to help you..." HA!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 12:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,747

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,328
Thanked 749 Times in 476 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redyaris View Post
Would an EV with a tiny Honda 25cc industrial engine or equivelent be considered a hybrid?
A 25cc engine? What about one of those model airplane engines? Less weight penalty, smaller, fits in your glove compartment!
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell


[Old] Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 04:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,530

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 62.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,978 Times in 3,613 Posts
I agree with everyone's points, above.

Nothing official to report, except that a long-standing member of Ottawa's EV group (with both official and quasi governmental experience with EV issues at the policy/guidance level) has just sent a registered letter to the minister of the transportation department.

From his letter I learned that to date the reasons being given verbally by staff for refusing "E" registrations (there is no evidence yet of written policy) vary from inquiry to inquiry, and have included:

Quote:
1) People are fraudulently claiming a change in motive power from gasoline (G) to electric (E).

2) New rules are being drafted, and registrations of all electric vehicles are being refused until the new rules are in place.

3) Conversions to electric power are not subject to rigorous inspections, and therefore present a hazard to first responders in the event of a collision.
I'll keep you posted. So far, no people with a flatbed truck have shown up demanding I hand over the keys to the ForkenSwift.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 06:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,891

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 506
Thanked 867 Times in 654 Posts
Being the lazy guy I am my EV is registered as a gasser (actually no real EV designation in this state without problems)

I would estimate that is how you get around the problem, leave it registered as a gasser, leave the tailpipe and put a fan on it, the morons in the smog test won't be able to figure out why your car has no emissions.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rmay635703 For This Useful Post:
MPaulHolmes (04-10-2010)
Old 04-08-2010, 10:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,530

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 62.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,978 Times in 3,613 Posts
I suppose that's one way to do it. Not sure if anyone's tried.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 03:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
EV test pilot
 
bennelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oconomowoc, WI, USA
Posts: 4,435

Electric Cycle - '81 Kawasaki KZ440
90 day: 334.6 mpg (US)

S10 - '95 Chevy S10
90 day: 30.48 mpg (US)

Electro-Metro - '96 Ben Nelson's "Electro-Metro"
90 day: 129.81 mpg (US)

The Wife's Car - Plug-in Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
90 day: 78.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 663 Times in 388 Posts
As rmay stated, in my home state of Wisconsin, there IS NO E.V. designation with our Department of Motor Vehicles.

That also means that there is no way of tracking them. Which can be a bad thing. I have been at transportation conferences where the presenter would say something like that there are no EVs in the state, and then I have to point out that I drove there in one.

We have no way of tracking EVs, so the state won't say, "Hey, we have 1000 EVs on the road, let's install Charging Stations in public!"

As for smog/emissions/registration...
My motorcycle was exempt from emissions testing, due to age.
The Citicar was exempt from testing due to age (absolutely ZERO problems registering.)
The Metro had to go to emissions testing. Of course it has no engine or exhaust, but there was no "exempt because it's an EV" box on the form at the DMV test station.

I was eventually able to find the right people to talk to, and brought the car into the special testing station, many miles away.
They quickly gave me an exemption and thought it was a really cool project. They also notified me that "officially" I had broken Federal Law by "modifying the emissions system". They didn't bust me for it or anything, but did let me know that, technically, removing the exhaust pipe or catalytic converter breaks federal law.



An EV with a cat and exhaust? Sounds like something government would design. (Hey, wait a minute, I think I just accidentally ripped on the Chevy Volt! )

Also, whenever I tell people about what I had to do for emissions testing, without fail, people jokingly say to just bolt on a muffler and take it to the poor fools at the DMV.

That would not work. There simply would not be the pollutants going through to register properly. The attendant would simply keep fiddling with it, eventually get the manager, he would fiddle with it. Look under your car, see that you were trying to pull something, and you would get in trouble.

Also, most emission testing now uses a cable going to your OBDII jack. Many EVs have the car's computer completely removed. Even if it is still there, it will give error codes like crazy. Not what you want either.

The law on registration varies from state to state (and provence to provence as well, I would imagine.)
Learn the law of your state, and stick to it as best you can. Where there really is trouble with it, stick with the SPIRIT of the law as best you can, and don't get in trouble by messing with the letter of the law.

For example, there are places where you may have to do emissions testing just once, right after buying a car. Often EV converters will meet the letter of the law by registering and testing the car with the running gasoline engine. Once that's done, the car is converted to electric, still meeting the spirit of the law ( no emissions.)

Once the mainstream EVs get to market, it should help solve a lot of problems for the rest of us with oddball or converted vehicles.

In the mean time, lets hope that this thing in Ontario turns out OK.
__________________


300mpg.org Learn how to BUILD YOUR OWN ELECTRIC CAR CHEAP
My YouTube Videos
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bennelson For This Useful Post:
Piwoslaw (04-10-2010)
Old 04-10-2010, 02:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,747

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,328
Thanked 749 Times in 476 Posts
Maybe Ontario should have look at every car that was registered as an electric conversion within the last 5 years and slap a huge fine to those that still have an IC engine. It's not that hard to notice whether a car has an engine or a bunch of batteries, you don't need hi-tech and expensive instruments to do that.
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell


[Old] Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2010, 04:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
PaulH
 
MPaulHolmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maricopa, AZ (sort of. Actually outside of town)
Posts: 3,832

Michael's Electric Beetle - '71 Volkswagen Superbeetle 500000
Thanks: 1,362
Thanked 1,202 Times in 765 Posts
If you live in washington state, where there are no emissions standards that I know of, you just don't tell anybody anything, and you drive around. hurray! And if they make laws saying it's illegal, you still do it anyway, but just don't get pulled over. That's my advice. haha

__________________
kits and boards
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Cars Push Japan Engine Parts Makers to Crisis Mode tjts1 The Lounge 14 12-23-2012 01:47 PM
100 mile range Ranger EV? Frank Lee Fossil Fuel Free 10 08-05-2010 01:09 PM
Chrysler Expected To Kill Models, Bring Italian Vehicles Ashore Jammer The Lounge 17 06-26-2010 08:29 PM
Electric bicycles: now legal where I live (Ontario) MetroMPG Alternative Transportation 1 11-28-2007 09:36 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com