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Old 04-04-2010, 07:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If rules are made to be bocken? then how close can one get to the edge of the rule with out quite bracking it? Would an EV with a tiny Honda 25cc industrial engine or equivelent be considered a hybrid? quite frankly the cause may be erelavent, the question is how to get around the problem rules.

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Old 04-04-2010, 08:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I would call it a hybrid, and I bet the MTO would agree. But you'd better have a cat on that 25cc engine, and an evap system on its gas tank!

MetroMPG's speculation that this is a crackdown on fraud makes sense to me. Hopefully, they come up with a way for Ontarians to prove their EV conversion is legitimate. Maybe presenting evidence of the conversion to a court or something.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Most, if not all jurisdictions have motor vehical safety inspection stations. If there is a problem with fraudulent claims at the registration office, then all that needs to be done is to have the vehical go through the inspection station and have the station certify that the vehical meets the standard set by the province for an electrical vehical. That should not take more than a few months to get the standards established! "...trust me I'm from the government and I'm here to help you..." HA!
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redyaris View Post
Would an EV with a tiny Honda 25cc industrial engine or equivelent be considered a hybrid?
A 25cc engine? What about one of those model airplane engines? Less weight penalty, smaller, fits in your glove compartment!
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Old 04-05-2010, 03:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I agree with everyone's points, above.

Nothing official to report, except that a long-standing member of Ottawa's EV group (with both official and quasi governmental experience with EV issues at the policy/guidance level) has just sent a registered letter to the minister of the transportation department.

From his letter I learned that to date the reasons being given verbally by staff for refusing "E" registrations (there is no evidence yet of written policy) vary from inquiry to inquiry, and have included:

Quote:
1) People are fraudulently claiming a change in motive power from gasoline (G) to electric (E).

2) New rules are being drafted, and registrations of all electric vehicles are being refused until the new rules are in place.

3) Conversions to electric power are not subject to rigorous inspections, and therefore present a hazard to first responders in the event of a collision.
I'll keep you posted. So far, no people with a flatbed truck have shown up demanding I hand over the keys to the ForkenSwift.
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Being the lazy guy I am my EV is registered as a gasser (actually no real EV designation in this state without problems)

I would estimate that is how you get around the problem, leave it registered as a gasser, leave the tailpipe and put a fan on it, the morons in the smog test won't be able to figure out why your car has no emissions.
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I suppose that's one way to do it. Not sure if anyone's tried.
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Old 04-08-2010, 02:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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As rmay stated, in my home state of Wisconsin, there IS NO E.V. designation with our Department of Motor Vehicles.

That also means that there is no way of tracking them. Which can be a bad thing. I have been at transportation conferences where the presenter would say something like that there are no EVs in the state, and then I have to point out that I drove there in one.

We have no way of tracking EVs, so the state won't say, "Hey, we have 1000 EVs on the road, let's install Charging Stations in public!"

As for smog/emissions/registration...
My motorcycle was exempt from emissions testing, due to age.
The Citicar was exempt from testing due to age (absolutely ZERO problems registering.)
The Metro had to go to emissions testing. Of course it has no engine or exhaust, but there was no "exempt because it's an EV" box on the form at the DMV test station.

I was eventually able to find the right people to talk to, and brought the car into the special testing station, many miles away.
They quickly gave me an exemption and thought it was a really cool project. They also notified me that "officially" I had broken Federal Law by "modifying the emissions system". They didn't bust me for it or anything, but did let me know that, technically, removing the exhaust pipe or catalytic converter breaks federal law.



An EV with a cat and exhaust? Sounds like something government would design. (Hey, wait a minute, I think I just accidentally ripped on the Chevy Volt! )

Also, whenever I tell people about what I had to do for emissions testing, without fail, people jokingly say to just bolt on a muffler and take it to the poor fools at the DMV.

That would not work. There simply would not be the pollutants going through to register properly. The attendant would simply keep fiddling with it, eventually get the manager, he would fiddle with it. Look under your car, see that you were trying to pull something, and you would get in trouble.

Also, most emission testing now uses a cable going to your OBDII jack. Many EVs have the car's computer completely removed. Even if it is still there, it will give error codes like crazy. Not what you want either.

The law on registration varies from state to state (and provence to provence as well, I would imagine.)
Learn the law of your state, and stick to it as best you can. Where there really is trouble with it, stick with the SPIRIT of the law as best you can, and don't get in trouble by messing with the letter of the law.

For example, there are places where you may have to do emissions testing just once, right after buying a car. Often EV converters will meet the letter of the law by registering and testing the car with the running gasoline engine. Once that's done, the car is converted to electric, still meeting the spirit of the law ( no emissions.)

Once the mainstream EVs get to market, it should help solve a lot of problems for the rest of us with oddball or converted vehicles.

In the mean time, lets hope that this thing in Ontario turns out OK.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Maybe Ontario should have look at every car that was registered as an electric conversion within the last 5 years and slap a huge fine to those that still have an IC engine. It's not that hard to notice whether a car has an engine or a bunch of batteries, you don't need hi-tech and expensive instruments to do that.
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If you live in washington state, where there are no emissions standards that I know of, you just don't tell anybody anything, and you drive around. hurray! And if they make laws saying it's illegal, you still do it anyway, but just don't get pulled over. That's my advice. haha

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