Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-03-2010, 11:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,231

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 55.99 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,985
Thanked 5,868 Times in 3,042 Posts
Exclamation Ontario suspends registrations of converted electric vehicles (update: ban lifted)

I'm looking for more details, but it appears the forward-thinking province of Ontario (Canada's most populous province, and location of most of Canada's conversions) has put a moratorium in place on the registration of electric conversions.

Not yet sure how this will affect the ForkenSwift, or whether it only applies to new applications.

Here's a letter in today's Ottawa Citizen from a member of Ottawa's EV group (who also runs a business doing conversions):

Quote:
MTO moratorium short-circuits electric vehicle conversions

The Ottawa Citizen April 3, 2010 6:06 AM

For 100 years, we have been able to drive electric-powered vehicles on the roads in Ontario. For the last 30 years or so about the only way to get an electric vehicle was to build it yourself by converting a conventional gasoline-powered car to electric power.

This practice has been followed by many electric-vehicle enthusiasts and is fully legal and encouraged by the government because you can apply for up to a $1,000 sales tax rebate from the Minister of Revenue of Ontario under the "vehicles powered by alternate fuel, RST 702" program.

Now the Ministry of Transportation of Ontario (MTO) has declared a moratorium on the registration of electric vehicles pending a review of the requirements and regulations applying to this type of vehicle registration.
This sudden action has left several consumers in limbo having already spent many thousands of dollars (as much as a new car) on vehicle conversions and no way to register or license their car for the road. We are not talking about thousands of vehicles but a few forward-thinking individuals.

I am all for ensuring that safe, reliable vehicles are on our roads but find the unexplained moratorium with no date in sight of when it might be released regressive. To my knowledge there has never been an issue related to the safety of an electric vehicle conversion or the safety of first responders to accidents in Ontario, Canada or the U.S. over the 30 years that I have personally and professionally been involved with electric vehicles.

I have to question why electric vehicles have been singled out and treated this way. We all await commercial sale of electric vehicles from the manufacturers, but in the meantime let us realize our dreams of owning an electric car now.

Richard Lane, Ottawa
President, REV Consultants Ltd.
source: MTO moratorium short-circuits electric vehicle conversions

__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-03-2010, 11:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Leadville, CO
Posts: 509

Maroon Ballon - '98 Chrysler Town & Country LXI
90 day: 26.42 mpg (US)

MaEsTRO - '95 Geo Metro 5spd hatch, 3 cyl
Thanks: 47
Thanked 54 Times in 38 Posts
I'd be curious as to how much the oil lobby has to do with this kind of thing...
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 10:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,231

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 55.99 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,985
Thanked 5,868 Times in 3,042 Posts
Or the fact that the Ontario government is a significant shareholder in Government Motors, along with the US & Canadian feds.

Or it may simply be a case of the Nanny State being annoying for no good reason. Sometimes it's nice to be coddled by Nanny. Other times, not so much
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 11:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 128

Schwartzejetta - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI GL
90 day: 52.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 18
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguitarguy View Post
I'd be curious as to how much the oil lobby has to do with this kind of thing...
As is, the Onterrible Gov't takes more in taxes than that so called "oil lobby" makes in profits per litre of fuel* -- roughly 14 cents per litre, gasoline, or diesel. They don't need a lobbyist to tell them that.

Onterrible has a structural deficit, the current one is over 20 billion dollars. This is a freeze to look and see if they can shake down more money out of people; that, and Onterrible is a haven for nanny state style useless rules and regulations.

I don't foresee an electric car in my future, but I think it's an awful thing that my home province is trying to put the kibosh on people making electric conversions.

Unfortunately, they went this way long ago with kit-cars, effectively legislating/regulating them out of existence in the province, by treating them as vehicles requiring full compliance to the myriad of crash tests and other compliance regulations that the major automakers must file for each model they sell. So, really, I expect to hear that they go the same route with EV conversions. Previously registered cars might squeak by unburdened by new regs, fees, taxes, fees for the tax, and/or taxes for the fees; new ones produced by the cottage conversion industry might not.

*Canada Gasoline Tax Information - Ontario Gas Prices
__________________
Current mod: Skidplate/Undertray for my MkIV Jetta. Next mod: CAD drawing for skidplate so other Jetta/Golf drivers can make one too!

Last edited by ChrstphrR; 04-03-2010 at 11:07 PM.. Reason: Clarifying which cars Onterrible will legislate out of existence...
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 11:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
Lurking footless halls
 
Silveredwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: northeast
Posts: 249

Dark Horse - '16 Ford Mustang GT convertible Premium

Gutless Beauty - '19 Toyota Corolla SE
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Nice. Big oil AND government are slapping high fives. Welcome to North America.
__________________
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Clarke's Third Law
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 11:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 283 Times in 196 Posts
Does this mean you might have to make the ForkenSwift into a hybrid? That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Re-reading the first post, it seems that the moratorium affects not just homemade EVs, but also commercial ones, eh?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 11:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Madison AL
Posts: 1,123

The Geo - '93 Geo Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 45.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 30
Thanked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silveredwings View Post
Nice. Big oil AND government are slapping high fives. Welcome to North America.
It's a pleasure to have you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 09:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,231

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.8 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 55.99 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,985
Thanked 5,868 Times in 3,042 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrstphrR View Post
This is a freeze to look and see if they can shake down more money out of people;
Except the number of converted EV's in the province is vanishingly small. I'd bet there are less than 25 on the road. I can't imagine that the number of people requesting registration of conversions has shot up dramatically.

Unless...

I wonder if the moratorium may have to do with someone/some people exploiting the EV registration process to bypass emissions testing.

At the local drivers/licenses office, the ForkenSwift's registration was ultimately changed from "g" (gasoline) to "e" without any supporting documentation/inspection required. Note that "e" also grants an exemption from the province's Drive Clean emissions program.

Theoretically, anyone could walk in and say "my car is electric" and get their registration changed.

I wonder if the ministry of transportation noted a spike in "e" registrations at some office(s) in the province. Imagine a used car dealer or curbsider discovering and exploiting this trick, registering a bunch of ICE vehicles as electrics to circumvent emissions compliance.

Quote:
Unfortunately, they went this way long ago with kit-cars, effectively legislating/regulating them out of existence in the province, by treating them as vehicles requiring full compliance to the myriad of crash tests and other compliance regulations that the major automakers must file for each model they sell.
This is how Ontario effectively prevented NEV's / LSV's from being sold (registered) in the province as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls View Post
Does this mean you might have to make the ForkenSwift into a hybrid? That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
Not sure what it means yet for the FS.

Quote:
Re-reading the first post, it seems that the moratorium affects not just homemade EVs, but also commercial ones, eh?
My understanding is that it's an issue only with people wanting to change from ICE to EV status.

The province hasn't made any public statement on this. It was discovered this spring by a couple of people who completed conversions and were reportedly denied the EV designation on their registration.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 09:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
PaleMelanesian's Disciple
 
hummingbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Noida, UP, India
Posts: 197

City - '04 Honda City iDSI EXi
90 day: 47.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Stupid dogs in the manger! They cannot take on the real challenges, so they pick on small fries like EV modders.

If these guys were around ol' Henry would have been denied a factory permit, and we would have been very eco-friendly (plenty of horse manure to go around for everyone's kitchen garden!) Sheesh!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
MetroMPG -

When I see this stuff I look for an event that might have triggered the legislation. Maybe an EV got in an accident where the safety was called into question. But the "EV Registration Loophole Theory" does have merit.

CarloSW2

__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Cars Push Japan Engine Parts Makers to Crisis Mode tjts1 The Lounge 14 12-23-2012 01:47 PM
100 mile range Ranger EV? Frank Lee Fossil Fuel Free 10 08-05-2010 01:09 PM
Chrysler Expected To Kill Models, Bring Italian Vehicles Ashore Jammer The Lounge 17 06-26-2010 08:29 PM
Electric bicycles: now legal where I live (Ontario) MetroMPG Alternative Transportation 1 11-28-2007 09:36 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com