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Old 07-09-2012, 04:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Open Source Hybrid/Hybrid Electric Car Project

Open Source Hybrid/Hybrid Electric Car Project

I live in York, SC and I'm starting the design and brainstorming process of a electric/hybrid electric car.
I'm not coming into this thinking that I know all the right or wrong ways to build, In fact it's quite the opposite.
I'd like to show people that you don't need a huge shop, background in engineering, large skill set, etc...so I'm thinking more of this project as an "open source" type of a project.

I'll be building a 3 wheeled (reverse trike) electric car design from the ground up.
I may include a small engine for electric generation.
I'd like to only use renewable energy (solar, wind, hydro) to charge this vehicle.
- In the case of a hybrid, use renewable fuel sources.

I don't what this to be too complicated as I want the average/advanced DIYer to be able to build this.

Guidelines/Criteria:
Keep total build cost below $10,000.
If full electric, total range of 150+ miles
If hybrid, total range of 400+ miles
Must seat 2+ people
Must not be open like a motorcycle
Must be (relatively) easy to replicate by other DIY'ers

My goal:
Inspire people to be aware of their use of consumable energy.
Encourage others to be creative and think outside the box.
Show people that they don't need to have lots of money to do something great.
Teach others how they can build the same type of vehicle for minimal dollars.
Provide FREE build plans to DIY'ers in the end.

Some IDEAS:
Why not build a set of plans (ie. the Vortex, XR3, or many others) that use parts that can be easily replicated by a DIY'er utilizing a common (in the scrap yard) front end and, easy to be found parts for the rest of the car (this is something I've been considering and will potentially need some direction in).
Why not build a community and provide continuous improvement on this topic (giving away all project updates FREE).
Why not apply the Wikipedia business model to this challenge?
Why not give small machine shops around the world the ability to create and build parts that DIY'ers can purchase for their builds.
Why not put money back in OUR pockets while helping each other with this venture?
Why pay $25,000 for a poorly performing vehicle from a major auto manufacture when we can build it to outperform for half the cost?

If you're interested in helping with the design, build, fabrication, promotion, etc...in any way, I'm all ears....PM me.
If an "open source" project of this type already exists that I'm unaware of, I'd love to know.
Many hands make light work.

I'm not sure I've articulated my thoughts and Ideas well, if not....please ask and I will fill in.

Thanks In Advance,

Wayne
SC

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Old 07-09-2012, 09:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ive had the idea instead of using an existing vehicle that was designed around an ICE was to use a kit car or rat rod that was rather open in design, weight and easy to throw together and pass as a legal vehicle for the road.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I've always liked the idea of a kit car, never thought about a rat rod...

I'm not saying that a rat rod wouldn't (and it would certainly be a sweet EV show car) but it would not be able to get the affordable mileage that we are shooting for.

The kit car on the other hand is a great idea and there are certainly pros and cons to it. Firstly, I haven't seen a try kit car that is set up as a reverse trike and/or a tear drop shape, have you? For the economy of the vehicle, I think we need it to be teardrop shaped. Like I mentioned above, there are plans available for reverse trike designs but they are "build from scratch" plans....not a kit.

I would be open to turning this type of a project into a kit car that would have components produced (production negotiated) by a non-for-profit organization which in turn would lower the overall cost of the build for the DIYer.

Thoughts?

Am I on the right track here?

Wayne
SC
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Absolutly I am interested.

I will commit to your project the following:

I will give my design of the frame.
I will give measurement, etc.
I will help you figure out how to convert my design to electric (should be easy).

I am going to try to provide bodies at a reasonable price. My experience is the body is the hardest part by far, but with a good mold, I should be able to provide them to anyone who wants one cheaply.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Under 10k :O Perhaps a series hybrid would be a good idea, with light battery capacity? Something that would be really cool would be a CBR250R engine as a generator, those things should be very light.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Doug,

You are an incredible person.
No need to rush on giving me the measurements today, let's take time and do this the right way if it's to materialize.

Ok, so getting down to business....in your mind, is this Open Source Idea a good one?
Should this be fostered through a forum like this or hosted on it's own website?
Another thought, is there room for enough batteries to power the given (above) miles? And/Or include a small regeneration motor?

Side Note:
How did the DOT inspection go today?

Look forward to working together in the future.

Wayne
SC




Quote:
Originally Posted by drmiller100 View Post
Absolutly I am interested.

I will commit to your project the following:

I will give my design of the frame.
I will give measurement, etc.
I will help you figure out how to convert my design to electric (should be easy).

I am going to try to provide bodies at a reasonable price. My experience is the body is the hardest part by far, but with a good mold, I should be able to provide them to anyone who wants one cheaply.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i think the idea is a great one.

starting from scratch is easier in many ways.

Personally, I like a donor car with custom frame, and body.

I'll help, but I won't drive the project.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Smile

Love the ideas, keep them coming guys.
What about a small diesel engine that will run on Vegetable oil?

Wayne
SC



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Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
Under 10k :O Perhaps a series hybrid would be a good idea, with light battery capacity? Something that would be really cool would be a CBR250R engine as a generator, those things should be very light.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divedaddy03 View Post
Love the ideas, keep them coming guys.
What about a small diesel engine that will run on Vegetable oil?

Wayne
SC
That's a cool idea too, although the reason I mention the CBR motor is because it probably weighs next to nothing, and has very good power to weight ratio. The compression ratio is high and the rod stroke ratio is high so that offsets the "inherent" inefficiency of running at higher speed, I don't know what the cam specs are but I imagine regrinding the exhaust cam for say 5krpm rather than 10k, and then retarding the intake cam position to reduce volumetric efficiency should give a small bump in efficiency. Since it's a bike motor it probably has stupid long duration, so this might allow stoichiometric air fuel ratios at full throttle. At 5000rpm you could probably make 15hp? which is probably adequate for high speed highway cruising. If not, a turbocharger might be appropriate, with "miller cycle" operation.

The only thing is, if you use say E85 for renewableness, the port injection kinda wastes some of the charge cooling. Perhaps moving the injector upstream would be good, if more of the alcohol is vaporized before it hits the valves then less heat will be transferred to them. Also the compression ratio would need another bump to utilize the alcohol effectively, which is hard to do with the short stroke messing up in cylinder flow and combustion chamber geometry. I guess that's another argument for a turbo?
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Lightbulb

Good words my man.
I think that I know this is a great idea, it's been tried before I'm learning now.

The key differentiators that I feel will change the outcome is the people involved in the design, having a clear direction, making the Organization a non-for-profit business, giving the participants the option to monetize their work (ie, you selling your body kit, etc...), and the list goes on.

In the past the focus was not only on electric.
It wasn't focused on the DIYer build.
It wasn't focused on the option for multiple power plants.
There was mainly designers working on the concept look but nobody working on the systems, suspension, etc, etc, etc...only the "look" of the vehicle.

I agree that the "ground up" approach is the best but like you, starting with a donor car has mega positives. Do you have some suggestions of ones that can be readily found in junkyards across NA for cheap?

Another thought, what about designing multiple cars?
One with a ground up platform, and one with a donor car platform?

Maybe even have a design competition for both....... * scheming*

I can be "THE" driver of a project of this nature...but I will need support as you have suggested.

For a successful open source project like this to take place, there must be:
1. "Who" - Main Driver and Board of Directors
2. "Why" - Unified vision statement, etc, etc, etc...
3. "How" - Getting a license, publishing results, forum for discussion, road map...
4. Have a Non-for-Profit foundation (OR, be "IT")

The above is an abridged version, this could be a topic for a lengthy post...

Wayne
SC




Quote:
Originally Posted by drmiller100 View Post
i think the idea is a great one.

starting from scratch is easier in many ways.

Personally, I like a donor car with custom frame, and body.

I'll help, but I won't drive the project.

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