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Old 07-13-2012, 11:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Neil,

I see your links in this post as I looked over this before, my bad.

What do you mean by a "serial" hybrid?

I like what you're doing with the project, I really do.

I think there could be room for something like this along side/in conjunction with the idea in this thread.

For example, a base frame with interchangeable bodies (that include an interior) based on the individuals needs?

Just a thought,

Wayne
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My CarBEN EV5 design is open source. Seats 5 and is all electric. I am expecting at least 300-400 miles range.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ter-11969.html

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...eat-22529.html

I think an EV with an optional serial hybrid genset makes sense.

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Old 07-17-2012, 01:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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So....hasn't somebody already did a 4 wheeled one too? The Bug E concept isn't really what I'm going for here... What I have in my head is more like what drmiller is building although I'd like to make it a bit wider, lower, sit side-by-side w/room for a 3rd or golf clubs in the back kind design.

I really like what Zoltan Bod (Zoleco - Home) is doing with his car, I think he's on the right track but he's not making it for the DIYer and/or from a donor car. That said, look at the WikiSpeed Project (http://wikispeed.com/)...I really like the modular design. Maybe combine elements of all?

How would you make a vehicle lean w/o the whole chassis tilting?

This project is starting to take some shape in my mind...we should all get together and collaborate on what "REALLY" makes sense...but I stick to my previous mission, build an easily replicatable DIY vehicle.

Just some thoughts.

Wayne
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The reason I wasnt for the 3 wheel design was that someone already did it, the Bug E.

Second, in VA its classified as a motorcycle and would require a motorcycle license. I think in your state its different as to why you have a Zap dealer who sold 3 wheeled EVs or did.

My issue with using an eco car is that they are harder to find, cost more and were fairly efficient to begin with. I knew a guy in Lady Smith, VA who made a geo xfi an ev. THose cars as is can exceed 60 mpg and with a 10 thousand dollar EV conversion it would cost you 100 thousand miles to break even vs driving it as a gasser.

I dont recall the name of it, but Ive seen an EV that is 3 wheeled, seats 2 front to back like a jet fighter and leans into the turns. Maybe something alone those lines without the whole chassie tilting into the turns would be possible?

Guess we need to know how to get it past DMV first? I know back in the day many people who got on the Hyjet band wagon, those 4x4 mini cab over trucks that were dumped in the US for off road use. Many removed the shifter blocker plate, got them registered and has a street leagl 4x4 that got 40+ mpg.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ryland,

Bravo on the Hot Rod/Kit Car comment.

I think that we also need to think about a bigger global picture though too.
I want this project to provide something to the global community that hasn't been done before...in other words, lets make an EV/Hybrid that can be replicated in many different countries, not just NA if you will. With that in mind, what "donor" car can be found in most countries...?

The VW Beatle is what comes to mind for me anyway, it's an easy front end and mid platform to build off of, they are readily available in almost any part of the world, BUT............the front suspension is heavy, and leaves much to be desired in the performance area.

Separate drive trains? How would that work out on the efficiency scale?

Wayne
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In many states you can register your car as a hot rod or kit car by basing it off a vehicle that is over 20 years old (1992) so an early metro XFI that is rusting out would be perfect! or a regular metro and put the xfi cam shaft in there.
When building a kit car one thing to aim for is basing it off a common car that has issues, like rust! then you use the good parts like doors, dash, suspension and build your car around that.
Honda Civics are another car to look at, a 1992 honda civic sedan or coup is going to sell for a low price if the wheel wheels are rusted out and Civic VX engines bolt in giving you an engine that gets great mileage then either bolt the electric motor in where the AC compressor would bolt on or have the electric motor drive the rear wheels using the drive train from a rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive vehicle.

Basing your vehicle off as many stock off the shelf parts and stock junk yard parts as possible is going to make your job easier.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Grant,

Yes Doug, thank you!

I'm all in with you on the idea of powering generators for sustained EV re-gen. Diesel is, in my mind the way to go if this is the rout we decide to take. Much more low end torque to weight ratio. I'd like to see a usable, "value" added car come from this...not one that takes fifty buttons and switches to adjust to get it to perform economically.

The Station wagon ideas is one that I hadn't thought of, there are allot of say...older Audi's, Volvo's, etc out there that could provide a good build platform for a 4 wheeled EV w/optional re-gen build in the back end etc. A larger roof space would allow for solar panels to cover the roof and hood deck to assist with re-gen too.

What trikes are you talking about?

Wayne
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There are several ways to go depending ong what you are trying to accomplish. My Three Vehicle Solution currently is a Gran Caravan for long trips with the whole family, 4dr Geo Prizm, and a streamlined city bike. GE locomotive engines use diesel engines to power generators for the traction motors. The book 'Solo' chronicles the cross country trip of an electric conversion of a Ford Escort station wagon. The newer small station wagons are space efficient, inexpensive, and can tow a small trailer carrying a diesel generator for longer trips. A combination of lithium batteries, regen braking, and ultracapacitors would be lighter and more suited to stop/go traffic than lead acid batteries. A diesel generator could set up to run on Biodiesel or natural gas depending on availability of fuel. A portable generator is always handy in an emergency.
There are good plans available for trikes that can be adapted to diesel/electric power. The hard part may be defining what the vehicle is meant to accomplish. Consider how we want to use our transportation options in a 21st setting of value management.
Thank you Doug for your offer.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divedaddy03 View Post
I think that we also need to think about a bigger global picture though too.
I want this project to provide something to the global community that hasn't been done before...in other words, lets make an EV/Hybrid that can be replicated in many different countries, not just NA if you will. With that in mind, what "donor" car can be found in most countries...?

The VW Beatle is what comes to mind for me anyway, it's an easy front end and mid platform to build off of, they are readily available in almost any part of the world,
Best Selling Cars Around The Globe: The 100 Models That Sell The Most Worldwide In Q1 2012 | The Truth About Cars

The VW beetle hasn't been sold in the USA for nearly 30 years, but they did make 21,500,000 of them, the Honda Civic comes in close at 16,500,000 of them made and they are still making them, of course the design has changed a bit the basics of their design has stayed pretty much the same with a lot of parts that can be swapped from generation to generation.
Toyota Corolla is the current world wide top seller and they have built a total of 36,000,000 of them, so there are a lot out there, but they don't have as many engine options as Honda and their gas mileage doesn't tend to be as good.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:36 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I like where you're going with this.

Couple of points, how can we effectively use a uni-body car with this type of build?
-- Knowing that we want to design our own body for this
How would it be best to attach a single rear wheel to a car suck as the Civic (which BTW I think is a great car to use).

Wayne
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Best Selling Cars Around The Globe: The 100 Models That Sell The Most Worldwide In Q1 2012 | The Truth About Cars

The VW beetle hasn't been sold in the USA for nearly 30 years, but they did make 21,500,000 of them, the Honda Civic comes in close at 16,500,000 of them made and they are still making them, of course the design has changed a bit the basics of their design has stayed pretty much the same with a lot of parts that can be swapped from generation to generation.
Toyota Corolla is the current world wide top seller and they have built a total of 36,000,000 of them, so there are a lot out there, but they don't have as many engine options as Honda and their gas mileage doesn't tend to be as good.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:05 PM   #27 (permalink)
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What is the argument/s to go with RWD vs. FWD or vise versa on an EV (regardless of 3 or 4 wheel design)...??

I'm inspired by this platform for an EV (Platform | Arcimoto) however I think it should be build to fit into the car category, not motorcycle.
Non technical review of the Arcimoto (Here).

I think one could be easily built with a modular design and side by side seating among other changes.

Thoughts?

Wayne
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Ideally, the electric motor should drive the front wheels, for better regenerative braking.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Why is that? Doesn't the back wheels have the same amount of slip/friction on the road as what the front does?

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Ideally, the electric motor should drive the front wheels, for better regenerative braking.
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:10 PM   #30 (permalink)
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70% of your breaking power is at the front wheels, because as you slow the vehicle the weight shifts to the front, it keeps the vehicle more stable.

I personally like the idea of a 4 wheeled vehicle, a big part of that is living in an area that gets snow, with three wheels you end up with three tire tracks, with 4 wheels you end up with 2 tire tracks, I've also driven a 3 wheeled electric car in the summer on clean dry roads as well as on some dirt road and on well worn roads the rear wheel being in the center gave a less stable feeling.

Have you looked in to the Sunrise EV2? the trouble is that the design is nearly 20 years old so the vehicle that you stripped down for the doors and sub frame is also over 20 years old now and getting harder to find.

Using a unibody vehicle makes the project a little harder to a point but it also means that the body should have some stiffness to it, so cutting a whole side off of a unibody car to make use of the doors should not be a problem, a lot of new cars now glue body panels on instead of welding, spot welds create a weak point because they are a single spot of contact while two panels glued together end up being much stiffer, auto part stores sell to body shops so any auto part store should stock or be able to order these glues for gluing panels together, I see this option as being much cheaper then learning to spot weld.

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