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Old 03-28-2019, 10:59 PM   #3411 (permalink)
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Siemens 1FV5139-6ws28 AC motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes View Post
I don't really understand what T, S, and R are. Do you have any waveforms?
So this is what I am getting out of the T and S outputs from the encoder. The R is similar waveform but peaks at different angle of motor shaft.

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Old 04-05-2019, 01:50 PM   #3412 (permalink)
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Hello, I just stumbled onto this thread as I am doing some pre-planning for an experimental airplane build. I found Paul's instructable for this also. Just wondering if a custom inverter/controller could be built following this thread that would work for the EMRAX 348. The low voltage version of this motor with a battery pack in the 200-300v range should be able to directly drive a propeller at the required 2500 rpm range. The Emsiso EmDrive 500 that is recommended is only capable of around 110v.


Not sure how much $$ the Emsiso drive goes for, I might be able to run two in series? Seems building my own could be a cost saver? Thanks for anyones' thoughts on this.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:05 PM   #3413 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro64 View Post
Hello, I just stumbled onto this thread as I am doing some pre-planning for an experimental airplane build. I found Paul's instructable for this also. Just wondering if a custom inverter/controller could be built following this thread that would work for the EMRAX 348. The low voltage version of this motor with a battery pack in the 200-300v range should be able to directly drive a propeller at the required 2500 rpm range. The Emsiso EmDrive 500 that is recommended is only capable of around 110v.


Not sure how much $$ the Emsiso drive goes for, I might be able to run two in series? Seems building my own could be a cost saver? Thanks for anyones' thoughts on this.
I have not heard of an Emsiso drive - I looked it up and it is rated 800A peak and 500A continous. That's not too powerful. I don't think 2 in parallel will work unless you can synchronize the transistors firing.

The Emrax low voltage looks like it will take 1100A for 30 sec. That's quite a beast of a controller to buy or to build!

Paul's control board is .. not for sale right now? It seems that Paul is moving?

Anyway, it was somewhere around $400 for a pre-built and tested board.
Less if you buy the bare board and build it yourself. Then you need $$$ for the IGBTs at whatever current you want to build (for a 300V pack, I'd use 600V or higher rated IGBTs). 600A IGBTs are a decent price on ebay (under $1000). New they are a bit higher.

If you want to go to 1000A it's about double the price.

The big ring capacitor was expensive too. I don't know where Paul gets them. But it was $200+. Low equiovalent series resistance. Very high peak currents are possible.

Current sensors are not too expensive (maybe $200 for 3).

The heat sink, fans, etc are heavy so you will likely have some trade-offs to decide on. What is 'enough' cooling. How fast do you need to be moving to get the heat away. How fast (and how many amps) do you want to max out at? Do you need a fan at all for low speed taxing?

The heat sink for the controller would have to be in the air stream.

... that it for the high priced parts. The rest is work, testing, making an enclosure, and tuning the controller parameters to your motor.

I built a controller for my car. I'm not sure I'd build a controller for a plane. Having to stop on the side of the road because I didn't do something right is one thing. Falling out of the sky is .. another!
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Last edited by thingstodo; 04-05-2019 at 03:28 PM.. Reason: fix typo
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:36 PM   #3414 (permalink)
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Hi,

Yeah, thanks I agree, I wont be putting any plane into the air without a lot of taxying, testing, redundancy etc. I'm new to this EV stuff and trying to wrap my head around it before deciding on a final engine. It seems that the EMRAX 348, which is rated at ~400hp is a capable engine to lift a small plane. I likely wouldn't have to get much over half of its capability. So even though it has a peak of 1100 amps I may only shoot for 600-700 max, and then it's continuous is just over 500 amps. I like that I can build a reasonably low voltage battery pack(s) and still drive the propeller, directly, at its target 2500 rpm. I like that these PM motors are very durable and safe for this type of application. The thing is though AC motor controllers/inverters are very expensive, for a plane I'd want two for redundancy. If I could build my own controllers and get the RPM, torque, CCAs to drive the motor that would be a start. Then what would I need for range? An ICE? Some sort of other tech like Free Piston? How exactly do I connect a range extender or serially driven motor? Hmm, interesting ideas, need to do more research, I found the thread over at endless sphere, will be looking there also.
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Old 04-13-2019, 01:57 PM   #3415 (permalink)
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Hello everyone,

I am newly registered on the site, currently looking for a way to make a good quality BMS at a reasonable price, for electric vehicle project that I envisage in some time.

I spent a little time on this forum, with the idea to get the models of Paul & Sabrina’s BMS in order to manufacture them, as well as list of the components to buy.

But I did not succeed. Can one of you tell me where I can find that?

Thank you in advance for your help
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:51 PM   #3416 (permalink)
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I just dropped by because of the email notification. My own EV dream is unrealized ...for now.

My understanding is that Paul and Sabrina's Cheap 3 Phase Inverter (AC Controller) with Field Oriented Control does just that. Maybe it does include battery management, that's for others to say.

I know EVTV are opinionated about BMS. ...since 2009.

GET RID OF THOSE SHUNT BALANCING CIRCUITS - EVTV Motor Verks

And they've had fires in their shop since during testing. Apparently bottom balancing > top balancing?
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:53 PM   #3417 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallica View Post
Hello everyone
Hi! Welcome to the forum!

Quote:
I am newly registered on the site, currently looking for a way to make a good quality BMS at a reasonable price, for electric vehicle project that I envisage in some time.
I don't recall a BMS that Paul has designed. He has designed a 500Amp DC controller, a 1200Amp DC Controller, a 1000Amp AC Controller, a Resolver to Encoder converter board, and a DC/DC converter board .. that I know of.

I would suggest using a BMS that has a good track record, of course. The Leaf BMS is good at monitoring from what I read. I have not heard much about the balancing for the Leaf BMS. The Tesla BMS also has a good track record.

Are you recycling surplus batteries? Or building your own? For your first build I would suggest recycling. It simplifies things and you get results a bit quicker ... if you have the room in your vehicle for pre-built packs.

To talk to the boards in each Leaf module, Woltronix has a 'Leaf Pack sniffer 2' that I have read good things about. Store

For Tesla modules, EVTV has a board that will talk, as master, to the BMS in each Tesla pack. EVTV Motor Verks Store:

Those are the most cost effective solutions that I know about.

I don't use a BMS - I bottom balanced my LiFePO4 pack and manually check the cells every 6 months or so, when I've run the pack low. The recycled cells have been rock solid.

My Leaf cells ... I foolishly damaged the boards while taking the pack apart. So I don't have an operable harness or the monitoring portions ... I check them about once a month. The controller on my Polaris Ranger EV won't start up below 42V. That's about 3V per cell. I didn't bottom balance the pack, I top balanced it so that all of the cells hit 4.1V at about the same time.
The voltage on the pack is not as stiff as the LiFePO4 cells, so when the Polaris shuts down, the cell voltage bounces back to about 45V. None of the cells is below 3V when I have let them cool down, before putting them on the charger.

But I'm just a hobbyist. I don't have a highway-capable vehicle running

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated anyone mentioned:
- Paul and Sabrina, I am a happy long-time customer
- Woltronix, I watch and enjoy his videos but have never purchased anything from him
- EVTV, I went to EVCON one year, and am a satisfied, long-term customer
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Last edited by thingstodo; 04-13-2019 at 02:58 PM.. Reason: Disclaimer
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:45 PM   #3418 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro64 View Post
Hi,

Yeah, thanks I agree, I wont be putting any plane into the air without a lot of taxying, testing, redundancy etc. I'm new to this EV stuff and trying to wrap my head around it before deciding on a final engine. It seems that the EMRAX 348, which is rated at ~400hp is a capable engine to lift a small plane. I likely wouldn't have to get much over half of its capability. So even though it has a peak of 1100 amps I may only shoot for 600-700 max, and then it's continuous is just over 500 amps. I like that I can build a reasonably low voltage battery pack(s) and still drive the propeller, directly, at its target 2500 rpm. I like that these PM motors are very durable and safe for this type of application. The thing is though AC motor controllers/inverters are very expensive, for a plane I'd want two for redundancy. If I could build my own controllers and get the RPM, torque, CCAs to drive the motor that would be a start. Then what would I need for range? An ICE? Some sort of other tech like Free Piston? How exactly do I connect a range extender or serially driven motor? Hmm, interesting ideas, need to do more research, I found the thread over at endless sphere, will be looking there also.
curious why you'd build an ev plane, with the limitations to range and charging. the only use I see is a motorglider in good gliding country.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:34 PM   #3419 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I know EVTV are opinionated about BMS. ...since 2009.

GET RID OF THOSE SHUNT BALANCING CIRCUITS - EVTV Motor Verks

And they've had fires in their shop since during testing. Apparently bottom balancing > top balancing?
Yup. But what I read .. and listened to in the videos .. is that Jack and EVTV are still against BMS for LiFePO4 - they appear to take care of themselves for the most part.

I'd have to go back and look. I thought the fire was on a pack that was suspect ... a Better Place pack that had low capacity or something like that. I'm too lazy to go look

The Lithium polymer cells - Leaf Cells - EVTV don't deal with much. They still have a couple of the Better place packs around the shop. You see them in the background (or parts of them, I guess) in some of the shop videos.

The Tesla cells EVTV actually USE the BMS that came with the packs, just replace the master that gets the data. I think their master even activates the top-balance circuitry if you charge up the batteries past a certain voltage.

So things do evolve
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Old 04-13-2019, 09:49 PM   #3420 (permalink)
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November 9th, 2015 episode has the details.

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