Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2020, 05:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1,477

spyder2 - '00 Toyota MR2 Spyder
Thanks: 90
Thanked 280 Times in 217 Posts
I would say that with wide availability of LTO batteries (practically unlimited cycle life), this is now obviously the case. If you run a small LiFePO4-graphite pack empty everyday, your battery costs are going to be horrible because that battery pack will be gone in a few years. Batteries need to get 2x cheaper and 2x more dense before gasoline unequivocally loses.

My parents leased an X5 40e which could go around 13 miles on the 9.2kWh battery, maybe 15 if you took it easy and went slow. An overnight charge from 110V was enough to fill it up. On a more efficient small sedan instead of a giant boxy behemoth, 25-30 miles of range would be easily achievable.


Last edited by serialk11r; 10-08-2020 at 05:25 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-08-2020, 05:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,322

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 26.38 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,798
Thanked 3,212 Times in 2,393 Posts
Interesting, I hadn't read up on LTO before. It appears they are about 2/3 as energy dense as other lithium-ion chemistries.

Since they can be rapidly charged, it should allow vehicles to have smaller batteries since they can accept a high rate of charge equally as well (or better) as a larger capacity lithium-ion battery.

Most interesting is they perform better in temperature extremes; something other chemistries, LiFePO4 in particular struggle with. It may be possible to forego all but the most basic of battery conditioning.

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 05:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,552

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 78
Thanked 895 Times in 596 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Even though I wouldn't hold my breath for the average Joe to embrace the hybrid truck bandwagon so quickly, it would undeniably become a sensible option for business operators and fleet managers. On a sidenote, when GM released hybrid versions for the Silverado and Sierra 1500 and for the Tahoe, Escalade and Yukon it did surprise me they retained a V8 instead of using the Vortec 4300 which used to be standard in the Silverado and Sierra 1500.
In 2019 FCA sold 105,676 eTorque 48V hybrid vehicles between the Ram 1500 and Jeep Wrangler. I would say that is pretty good for the first year.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 05:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,322

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 26.38 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,798
Thanked 3,212 Times in 2,393 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
In 2019 FCA sold 105,676 eTorque 48V hybrid vehicles between the Ram 1500 and Jeep Wrangler. I would say that is pretty good for the first year.
Yeah, but mild hybrid. The main savings is engine start/stop.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 09:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,552

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 78
Thanked 895 Times in 596 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Yeah, but mild hybrid. The main savings is engine start/stop.
Yes, it is a mild-hybrid system but one that Ram truck and Jeep buyers are OK with buying. It is also more than a start / stop system. The electric motor adds 50 lb-ft of torque - way more than needed for a stop / start system.

At the end of the day it is a cheap way to gain 10-12% in fuel economy.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (10-09-2020)
Old 10-08-2020, 10:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1,477

spyder2 - '00 Toyota MR2 Spyder
Thanks: 90
Thanked 280 Times in 217 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Interesting, I hadn't read up on LTO before. It appears they are about 2/3 as energy dense as other lithium-ion chemistries.
Yup, they've actually been in use for a long time in small devices due to their reliability (e.g. the Citizen EcoDrive uses one, they're pretty confident you can keep the watch in the dark draining itself and it won't be an issue). The cycle life is almost comparable to lithium-ion supercapacitors, which is pretty crazy.

From the specs, it seems like the Lotus Evija uses them, as well as a number of other cars. You just can't get continuous 20C discharge rates out of a LFP reliably.

Since it works in the cold, it's also the perfect lead acid starter battery replacement. 5 of them in series gives you 13V at a full charge, very similar to 6 lead acid cells.

Last edited by serialk11r; 10-08-2020 at 10:14 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 01:35 AM   #27 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 8,333
Thanks: 0
Thanked 906 Times in 802 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
In 2019 FCA sold 105,676 eTorque 48V hybrid vehicles between the Ram 1500 and Jeep Wrangler. I would say that is pretty good for the first year.
Even though a mild-hybrid setup as such already qualifies to benefits in some regions, and recently sparked some controversy at least in Spain where Toyota tried to lobby for the General Traffic Directorate (DGT - Dirección General de Tráfico) to grant an exemption from traffic restrictions in Madrid and Barcelona only for full-hybrids, there is not too many fanfare around it. In export markets such as Brazil, many people got quite surprised once they find out the Wrangler is now available locally only as a hybrid.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com