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Old 08-15-2011, 02:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
tes
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I met one of the engineers working with the government's Tesla recently. He says only four engineers are authorized to drive the car. It has accumulated 40,000 km mostly on a dyno and on a track. They occasionally drive it to shows. They have a number of different vehicles, including electric cars and motorbikes, and are evaluating them in support of efforts to standardize MPGe ratings.

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Old 08-15-2011, 02:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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tes - how many kms on your car now?

One of the things I'd be most curious to see from their data (or any owner's) is the relationship between total distance driven & range / pack capacity. (Of course that relationship will depend on usage patterns & so will vary greatly among the cars.)

And most importantly: is there a "Tesla wave" when owners drive past one another?
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tes View Post
...are evaluating them in support of efforts to standardize MPGe ratings.
I do find this kind of amusing, since ultimately our decision will likely be close to whatever the US EPA does. (You bet Canada won't finalize its approach before the US.)

But we must strive for "fuel consumption ratings sovereignty", I suppose.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
tes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
tes - how many kms on your car now?

One of the things I'd be most curious to see from their data (or any owner's) is the relationship between total distance driven & range / pack capacity. (Of course that relationship will depend on usage patterns & so will vary greatly among the cars.)

And most importantly: is there a "Tesla wave" when owners drive past one another?
It's at 14,500 km, a little over one year old, and pack capacity is down by 0.5%.

To my knowledge no one has come up with a Tesla Wave, although I've seen a suggestion for a general EV wave that kinda looks like a plug - kinda like a "hang loose" wave without turning your hand.

In any case there's no one to wave at in Ottawa. The government's vehicle is rarely on the road, and the Dymon Solar car (the yellow one if you've ever seen it) has only 2,000 km on it. Finally saw it just this weekend, see pic.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
I do find this kind of amusing, since ultimately our decision will likely be close to whatever the US EPA does. (You bet Canada won't finalize its approach before the US.)

But we must strive for "fuel consumption ratings sovereignty", I suppose.
My understanding is that they're working with the Americans on this.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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...beware of any MPG values listed for any Tesla (ha,ha).
At 80 kph I get around 130 Wh/km.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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At 80 kph I get around 130 Wh/km.
...it's all about the non-existant gallon (MPG) for gasoline (ha,ha).
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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MPGe is based on energy equivalents (thus the e).

1 gallon of gasoline is 115,000 BTU.
1 kWh of electricity is 3,412 BTU.

So a gallon of gas is the equivalent of 33.7 kWh. That means the Tesla battery pack holds the energy equivalent of of 1.57 US gallons of gas.

EPA says the Tesla can go 240 miles on a charge (at a steady 55 mph it will easily do that). That is "1.57 gallons" equivalent, so a crude calculation gives 152 MPGe. I've seen numbers like 135 quoted.

At this point everyone starts talking about "well to wheels". Yeah, there are energy costs to producing the electricity. But there are also huge energy costs to extracting, refining, and delivering a gallon of gasoline. From what I can tell an honest well-to-wheels calculation is actually more favourable to the electric car!

So it's a hugely apples-to-oranges comparison. You're right that MPG for an electric car is pretty foolish, but they have to put something on the stickers that the average consumer can understand.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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There are energy costs to making electric. But where should that electric go...directly into a car battery, or to power the lights and machinery at a refinery? Last time I checked, fewer conversions were better, right?
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevyn View Post
There are energy costs to making electric. But where should that electric go...directly into a car battery, or to power the lights and machinery at a refinery? Last time I checked, fewer conversions were better, right?
Yes, fewer conversions are better. There are indeed energy costs to making electricity. But there are also very large energy costs to making gasoline.

The energy required just to extract, refine, and deliver gasoline is sufficient, in itself, to drive an electric car about the same distance that a gas car could go on that gallon of gasoline.

Kinda makes the gasoline superfluous!

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