Plug-in hybrid using hydrogen injection

[Logic]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Over thr years we have had several people say "I'll get one to work and show you how" and we never hear back from them. I like to think they died in an hho explosion.

... lol!
Ye it dosent work.
But fun to think about and tinker with.
And most importantly; fun and easy to do at home, much like pizza pan covers and chloroplast etc aero enhancements.
So, for that reason, it's not going away and shows 'spirit'.

(Perhaps thats why so many engineering students are doing thesis on the subject)

And if people are going to try anyway; then building the system as efficiently as possible is part of the fun, hence my thoughts/ideas above.

I assume you read the OP's 1st post where he talks about producing a beneficial amount of HHO with a home charged battery rather than the car's alternator as a simple means of turning any car into a plug in hybrid??
Then researched the benefit to weight ratios and power costs before coming here to take your usual dump..?

[oil pan 4]

Yeah I saw that. The tests used employed bottle fed hydrogen and appear to use far more hydrogen than an hho machine can make.
The one test showed that adding hydrogen improved fuel economy by a third. How do we know they induce a problem and then fake fix it with hydrogen.
The best way I can think of would be to run the engine at low load, at mid range RPMs, retard timing to reduce fuel economy and then add hydrogen because we know hydrogen burns really fast to make it look like the hydrogen increased fuel economy.
Where if the engine was running properly the hydrogen would have only increased fuel economy by a lab measurable amount.

[redpoint5]

There's no point in H2. Might as well burn the natural gas directly rather than convert it into hydrogen first.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Yeah I saw that. The tests used employed bottle fed hydrogen and appear to use far more hydrogen than an hho machine can make.

Yep; the "How much HHO can a HHO machine make" is something I keep an eye on. Something like buying a lotto card...

There's a whole 'fringe community' online who like to tinker with this.
Here's a new PDF (unread as yet. Looong!) on more or less where they're at:
https://www.academia.edu/21986732/Re...ard=view-paper

That's all Unicorn Corral stuff, most oftten revolving around finding the resonant frequency/ies that blast H2O to bits with very little power.
Light s also also in their conversations and some proper research on light as a catalyst is available.
Lets hope someone gets it right and it's reproducible... and doesn't 'disappear'.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The one test showed that adding hydrogen improved fuel economy by a third. How do we know they induce a problem and then fake fix it with hydrogen.
The best way I can think of would be to run the engine at low load, at mid range RPMs, retard timing to reduce fuel economy and then add hydrogen because we know hydrogen burns really fast to make it look like the hydrogen increased fuel economy.
Where if the engine was running properly the hydrogen would have only increased fuel economy by a lab measurable amount.

Yep there are ways to cheat.
And often employed by people trying to sell crappy, open cell, serial HHO cells:

• Boil the electrolyte to get big bubbles, either by running the cell hot or pulling a vacuum on it.
• Use huge amounts of power/voltage.
• Mess with the initial ignition timing etc.

But a lot of the studies are done by engineering students to get their thesis/degree.
These people don't stand to benefit financially and would get their degree whether the experiment showed an advantage or not.
So no reason to cheat..?

Many of them do show benefit. Even from a alternator run cell.
If one goes by the # that do vs those that don't; things remain interesting, but not interesting enough to tinker with unless you have 'school fee' money to burn.

Personally I feel that using the waste heat (exhaust mostly) to produce a fuel or add value/energy to it is most interesting.
I note that Syngas, is commercially produced at temperatures below those of a std car exhaust.
(Imagine being able to substitute 75 to 90% of your fuel with water! )

But the pressures used for optimal H2 production are dangerously high and would add much weight to a car.
Then there's the fact the the added heat for the reaction isn't in the "6 to 9 parts water to one part fuel" equation and takes fuel somewhere.

But what if the enough Syngas/H2 can be easily produced (lower pressure) to actually run lean or retard timing, ..??
The remainder of the gassified fuel remains fuel and the steam, steam.
Both show advantages in ICEs..?

MIT's Plasma Fuel Reformer was headed in this directoin before dropping off the map.
I 'heard' it was bought out and shelved..?
https://www.greencarcongress.com/200...eritor_cl.html

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Adding some moisture to the intake charge may actually be beneficial under some circumstances, be it droplets or steam which is what some so-called HHO kits actually provide, but HHO is mostly either pointless or a placebo. Were you resorting to an auxiliary electric motor or an electric pusher-trailer, powered by the batteries charged on the grid, it would eventually be more reasonable, as the efficiency of an electric motor can still be much higher than the electrolysis in an HHO cell.