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Old 12-21-2008, 12:10 PM   #31 (permalink)
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DieselHybrid
F1 and LeMans racing in general have little bearing on overall US vehicle sales- so that argument isn't valid. We're talking about the US diesel market-correct?
See this article from Greencar.com from 2006
Diesel-Powered Audi Wins Le Mans
07/10/2006


Here's one for the record books. The Audi R10 TDI, powered by a 650 hp V-12 diesel engine, has become the first diesel car to win what many consider to be the most grueling race in the world: the Le Mans 24 Hour race. Not only was the R10 TDI fast - setting the quickest lap of the day at 3 minutes, 31 seconds - the diesel engine proved reliable and remarkably quiet compared to its gasoline-powered competitors. The fuel economy advantage of diesel power was clear: the R10 TDI became the first sports car in the top-rung LM P1 class to cover 16 laps with one fuel load, and the car's average of 14 laps between refueling pit stops was considerably higher than the competition, according to Audi. Completing 380 laps in 24 hours, Audi also set a new distance record.

And lest you think Audi's high-performance diesel ambitions are limited to the racetrack, consider this: we've heard reports that the new Audi TT, which is coming to the U.S. in 2007 as a 2008 model, will be available with a diesel engine option. A diesel-powered TT would bring a much-needed efficiency boost to the sports car segment and - if it ever made it to the U.S. - liven up America's limited but growing diesel car market. And what better way to follow up a diesel-powered Le Mans win than with a diesel TT in the showroom? We never thought the old adage "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" would apply to diesels, but we'd be welcome the change.


This will change when manufactures get all the bugs out of them. But in the present they typically harder to start. You have to do more things to help them start in cold weather. The woman next door wants a car that will work just like the gasoline powered car she traded in. She doesn't know much in the mechanics of a car, all she knows is she has to go to the store, it's cold, and shes wants her car to start so she can drive it. Now Audi proved something that was never thought possable. And as this article shows they aren't just thinking of winning races. Shell Oil made special fuel for that car as well. What it does show is for every team on that day they all layed it out on the line to win and Audi used this very technology we are debating to win the hardest long distance race in the world. And they did it. That is the kind of drive automakers have to use to develop something that can be perfected so that ALL of us can someday have in our own cars.

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Last edited by guudasitgets; 12-21-2008 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:26 PM   #32 (permalink)
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If you believed that, whats that Toyota doing in your driveway?
The new body style Camry is built in Kentucky, therefore making it an American made car.
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:33 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Hmm, sounds like a real eco-friendly company to me
You didn't ask whether or not they were considered environmentally friendly by a corporate watchdog group, you asked for the name of a company that recycled NiMH batteries.
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:45 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guudasitgets
If you believed that, whats that Toyota doing in your driveway?

Quote:
The new body style Camry is built in Kentucky, therefore making it an American made car.
And the money you paid for this went ultimately where?, US or Japan?
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:54 PM   #35 (permalink)
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You didn't ask whether or not they were considered environmentally friendly by a corporate watchdog group, you asked for the name of a company that recycled NiMH batteries.
So what your saying is you "believe them" when the "say" they recycle them? Do we know where this recycling facility is? I put that up there because Toyota says a lot of things and there are time they don't have systems in place. I'm not a coprate watchdog group I was in the battery business though. For most of the non lead acid battery types there is not too much recycling in the US, NiCad's are the worst. For the others there is a lot of stock piling till plants get geared up to recycle them. There isn't a lot out there, and with US regulations is very hard and expensive to set a plant up in the US. I'm sure before Toyota put the Hybrids on the market they had to say they would recycle the batteries otherwise the US would never let them sell. But there isn't much in this country.
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:57 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guudasitgets
If you believed that, whats that Toyota doing in your driveway?



And the money you paid for this went ultimately where?, US or Japan?
Thats an irrelevant argument, because no money really stays in one place anymore. But a Ford escort, it was built in Mexico, buy a Camry, it was built in Kentucky, either way the companies have to pay employees and costs related to the country their in and country of origin. Not to mention worldwide investments and such. No auto manufacturer has their entire opertaion in one location because all vendors outsource for the cheapest price.

I heard it best in Armageddon .... "Russian components, American Components ... all made in Taiwan"
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:58 PM   #37 (permalink)
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So what your saying is you "believe them" when the "say" they recycle them?
If you have solid information that proves they aren't recycling feel free to post it, but asking if I "believe them" when they "say" whatever can be applied to just about anything. Bull like that is just trolling.

P.S. Should I "believe you" that your neighbor "said" she couldn't get her car started? Do we know where this neighbor is? I put that up there because I'm trolling/joking in the same way.
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:08 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I’m the guy who started this thread.
First I’m very pleased about your comments (negative or positive) !

Please allow me to throw-in my 2-cent opinion.

1. Regarding the problem with cold temperatures, it seams that Diesel driven countries like Europe (specially Scandinavia) and Canada have resolved this problem. Maybe the Diesel fuel in the US hasn’t the same quality as in the above-mentioned countries. On the other hand, in Alaska all large trucks/lorries use Diesel. Ask them how they can continue to transport valuable loads during the winter?

2. Politics and religion are a dangerous way to use them as evidence. Everyone is right and on the same time wrong. It’s an endless discussion. Although I agree that Diesel could reduce the dependency against the main fuel producers, our dependency remains!
It won’t solve the problem, as long we don’t have cars that don’t use fossil energy,
Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Russia remain the main crude oil producers.

3. Regarding the Hybrid engines: I believe that a Hybrid Diesel engine is more energy efficient than a gasoline one. The question, although, remains: Do we really need such high tech vehicles, to transport, mainly ONE person from A to B ?
I recently read that the same fuel economy could be reached by a high tech Diesel engine (please don’t ask me where I read that! I don’t remember!).
I repose my question: Why do we need two engines to transport mainly ONE person?

There is simple rule used by car manufactures:
A: a car consumes during it’s live-span so many X Liters / Gallons of fuel.
B: The manufacturing of it consumes about the same amount of energy!
C: The recycling of it consumes, again more or less, the same amount of energy!

Therefore a less complicated Diesel engine car needs less energy to be constructed and recycled as a complicated two engine Hybrid car!

4. Regarding the patriotism, in other words was this car build by American or German workers, is also an endless discussion, and it’s very risky!
Many parts of German cars are build in eastern Europe and Asia. The same is valid for American cars. So how do we quantify how much an American car is really American???

5. And to finish, with a more or less polemic issue. What about IMHO, the senseless Iraqi war? Aren’t almost all military vehicles Diesel driven?
Doesn’t this contribute to the shortcoming of Diesel production?

This is just my opinion and no offend is included.

Last edited by hal9999; 12-21-2008 at 05:37 PM..
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I personally think Diesel still has a great future.

My world view on fuel would be ...

-More efficient diesels to replace gas
-Incorporating Diesel generators with Electric cars to reduce dependancy on diesel
-Incorporate Solar power with Electric in order to phase out Diesel and all other Fossil fuel
-At the same time develop Hydrogen powered cars derived from water
-Eventually drive water powered cars not needing battery banks or non-renuable fossil fuels

I think this time line stretches well into the Jetsons, but why can't one dream.

Money will always trump progress, especially when progress cuts back on the money. Maybe one day wealth will loose meaning, opening the doors for real progress. Yeah right ..
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guudasitgets View Post
You won't ever convice anyone to buy a diesel in place of gas, or a hybrid...
Demonstrably false, since people do buy hybrids. Got one (Honda Insight) in my driveway. Toyota seems to have managed to sell all its Prius output, at least until the last couple of months - and they're STILL selling better than SUVs. Same applies to diesels: people buy them.

Quote:
...(remmember there is NO disposial system in place for the batteries in them)...
Why should there be, until there's actually a significant number of NiMH batteries around that need to be recycled? The great majority of hybrid battery packs are still going strong: of the ones that do fail, it's often a matter of replacing one bad cell (or string, for the Honda packs), after which the refurbished pack can go back in service.

Quote:
If the Pirus is the answer why isn't every car on the road a Pirus?
'Cause Toyota can only build so many per year? Because there's more than one possible answer? Every car on the road may not be a Prius, but there sure are a lot of them, and Honda hybrids, and they're getting more common every year :-)

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