Poll for Americans: What about Diesel engines?

[Coyote X]

Filled up my van this week at 1.69 a gallon for 87 and also my tractor at 2.99 for ULSD

I am just waiting on the HCCI engines to come out then we can not worry about it and get the best of both worlds.

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by guudasitgets

You won't ever convice anyone to buy a diesel in place of gas, or a hybrid (remmember there is NO disposial system in place for the batteries in them)

Say what??? No disposal system in place for batteries??? Not at all what I've heard. Can you cite reference for that?


Personally, I enjoy diesels tremendously. A ride in my cousin's diesel sports coupe while I was visiting him in Germany back in the 90's convinced me they don't all have to be boring, noisy, smelly vehicles... dang, that thing was a hoot!! I wish my gasoline-powered vehicles had that kind of "get up -n- go"!

But I agree that the general public has different perspectives. I mean, just pumping the stuff can be a turn-off. I can still smell the fuel a couple of days after, even though I've washed... some stations provide disposable gloves, but not all of them. So I can understand how most folks wouldn't want to deal with that...

[guudasitgets]

wish the world were as simple as you say. In our global economy- oil prices are affected by a multitude of factors. Supply and demand. If one member of OPEC sneezes (yes, I know, Canada is not part of OPEC), the rest of the world runs for a hanky.

theres an answer, Total domestic isolationizm

At my work they always kid me as the guy that has an answer for everything, and as I look back at my passion of working with some of the best there is in motorsports, you try and have that train of thought, always because as the ols saying goes, "if you won't somebody will"

Every dollar sent overseas to buy foreign oil adds to our trade deficit. Last time I checked, in 2007-2008 we spent nearly 700 BILLION in foreign oil to satisfy our insatiable domestic energy needs. I'm glad Canada is getting a large portion of this (as is Mexico)- but inevitably Hugo and Ahmidenijad get their slice through the global market as well. (I've made no mention of Saudi Arabia's global portion. Do you recall that 17 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were of Saudi origin?)

Well theres an answer to that too, you don't have a US passport, get out!

F1 and LeMans racing in general have little bearing on overall US vehicle sales- so that argument isn't valid.

Ok for these few seconds I'll make your point valid and take away EVERYTHING that had roots in the sport that has now a bearing on YOUR car; Your Toyota Corrolla. Lets start with the things racing has "no bearing on vehicle sales" like your seat belts, traction control, digital fuel injection, high preasure aluminium castings, radial tires, composite materials, disk brakes, low restriction exhaust, direct drive automatic transmissions, floating disk brake rotors, fire retardent interior materials, multi-viscosity motor oils & synthetics, Kevlar fiber (first automotive use 1967 Ford GT40 body); Rack & pinion steering, that prescious 16 valve head in your Corolla, it doesn't end, there are so many improvements we make in our race cars that you have no idea now what a better car in your future would become and yes it will reflect in sales and has a "bearing" on sales because you the consumer will have a better safer more efficiant car. Put some High pressure Helium gas ceramic wheel bearings on your car and see what a differance the miliage would be just by changing that alone. Don't even try to tell me none of this is valid.

We're talking about the US diesel market-correct?

Yes we are, is Audi part of that market?

Why aren't all vehicles on the road Prius? Simple, it's called freedom of choice.

No it's called -IT COSTS TOO MUCH,,,,,PERIOD!

I don't drive a Prius- because I can't stomach how boring it is to drive. That is my choice. However, I have driven "clean" turbo-diesels in Europe (from Ford and GM-Opel among others) that were 10x as fun to drive.

If you wanted something that wasn't boring you would be shopping for a 911

Yes, there are diesel cars available in the US right now- but I don't plan on owning one until I can buy one that is US-built. Again- this is my personal choice of wanting to support US workers.

If you believed that, whats that Toyota doing in your driveway?

[guudasitgets]

Say what??? No disposal system in place for batteries??? Not at all what I've heard. Can you cite reference for that?

Not what you heard? Give me the name of one company thats braking down lithium-ion and Nickel Metal Hydrde batteries. There all being stock-piled as of yet. Go By a Prirus and see all the stuff we don't know what to do with in there, all to save a gallon of gas, but then the japs don't really care about us, just the money we send them now do they.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by guudasitgets

Not what you heard? Give me the name of one company thats braking down lithium-ion and Nickel Metal Hydrde batteries.

Toyota.

Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?

Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.

[Big Dave]

Anybody here think the Tier II diesels are not more efficient if you lose the DPF?

All filters induce a pressure loss. That is back pressure. A diesel is very sensitive to back pressure. Back pressure is what works (non-Jacobs) diesel exhaust brakes.

The DPF is an example of making a lot of people pay a very steep price for an infinitesimal benefit that acrues to a very small part of the population.

And the DPF defeats the strength of the diesel. If I had one, the DPF would be on the garage floor as fast as I could cut it off.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Anybody here think the Tier II diesels are not more efficient if you lose the DPF?

All filters induce a pressure loss. That is back pressure. A diesel is very sensitive to back pressure. Back pressure is what works (non-Jacobs) diesel exhaust brakes.

It shouldn't be a significant pressure drop unless they're improperly designed. Technically mufflers induce a pressure loss, but the trade-off is worthwhile.

[tasdrouille]

Originally Posted by guudasitgets

Diesels arent the future if your in cold weather[...]

That makes no sense whatsoever. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. In 2005 in the US, TDI engines were in 15% of Jettas sold. In Canada the figure was 50%. We love diesels up here, yet I believe we get somewhat colder winters than you do.

Tier II is not alone to be blamed on reduced diesel efficiency in recent years. The later TD engines ran at 22:1 compression, than the first TDIs were at 19.5:1 and the new 2.0 16v CR engine runs at 16.5:1. That's the tradeof to go after an higher hp per liter figure. The whole bsfc map is being pushed higher up the rpm range with every generation. That have a cost on fuel economy.

[guudasitgets]

From Wiki on Toyota. The company that is quoted as having a disposal system for thier batteries;

Despite its many environmental advances, corporate watchdog Corporate Accountability International (CAI) selected the Toyota Motor Corporation as one of its nominees (along with Archer Daniels Midland, Countrywide, Mattel, Nestle, Blackwater, Wal-Mart, and Wendy’s) for its 2008 "Corporate Hall of Shame" elections. CAI states that Toyota is contributing to inaction on global warming. The watchdog group claims that "the company has hypocritically crafted an image as a corporate ally in the fight against climate change while working behind the scenes to stop greenhouse gas mandates from becoming law." The group points out that Toyota, has opposed "clean cars" legislation in many U.S. states, and is employing "aggressive lobbying efforts" to prevent legislation to limit gas-guzzling vehicles by 2020

Hmm, sounds like a real eco-friendly company to me

[guudasitgets]

That makes no sense whatsoever. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. In 2005 in the US, TDI engines were in 15% of Jettas sold. In Canada the figure was 50%. We love diesels up here, yet I believe we get somewhat colder winters than you do.

Really? well right now at 9:40 am in Nashotah Wisconsin its 12 below zero F(-12F=-23C) In Quebec City it's 3 degrees above zero F. My nieghbors brand new diesel jetta WILL NOT START! What a surprize. I had to take her to the store. I don't think shes gonna be keeping it for too long. The salesman claimed everything you just cited and I guess it didn't help her this morning. Shes pretty ticked. With the mandantory plugging in in the winter, additives in the fuel larger batteries, increased cost of the vehicles, higher fuel prices. The playing field is not equal and I DO know what I'm talking about, or are you saying it is just as easy to start a diesel engine compared to a gas engine with niether of them plugged in and both of them with the same exact blends of fuel they use in the summer at 30 below zero F? I suspect not. Like I said earlier when diesels and or hybrids are priced the same then the masses will change the market.