POPSCI: Why you can't sell me a car,

[user removed]

Originally Posted by Ryland

At 20 I could afford a brand new car but I didn't buy one, you know what I did instead? I saved my money and at 27 paid cash for my house.

I was 46 when I first paid off the house. Pop was 88. Get out of debt and stay out of debt if you can. I rebuilt cars (wrecked) and basically drove for free or made a little money when selling them. After paying one off (house) I used the equity to build one that sold 3 years later for about 2.5 times what the first paid off one sold for.

regards
Mech

[cbaber]

Originally Posted by UltArc

If I could pay 179/month tax, title, no down payment, out the door, for a 20k car, I would definitely do it.

It sounds like a great deal. Who wouldn't take an expensive car for a low low monthly payment?

But look at the big picture, and it's not a great deal. With no down payment, and lumping the taxes with the car price in the loan, you are immediately upside down on the loan when you sign the papers. If you ever need to sell it you have to cough up the difference to get out from underneath the loan. Even if you plan on keeping the car until you pay it off, by the time that happens you have just paid thousands of dollars in interest, on top of the price of the car. If you pay $20k cash you pay $20k cash. If you take out a loan you would pay $25-$30k for the same car.

The people that do this are constantly involved in car loans. They take out a 6 year loan on a new car. By the time they pay it off, the car has plenty of miles and would be considered older. Without a loan payment many people feel tempted to buy another car and take out another loan. This perpetual cycle leaves them paying banks to roll around in money, and keeping car companies happy. It all might sound convenient, but its financial stupidity.

Hypothetical numbers aside, my point is that banks and car dealers can work people over to the idea that the overall price is not important, and only the monthly amount matters. The overall price is what matters, not how much your loan payment is. Banks can restructure loans to make your payments whatever you want. But you will pay for it with interest.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Flakbadger

I'll be perfectly honest. I'm 26, and I find that guy to be kind of a douche-canoe. I think the only thing I REALLY agreed with him on is making cars cheaper.

I can't believe the idea of an "inexpensive" car to automakers is like 18 grand. Americans in general (not just Millennials) want cheap cars that do well on gas and are safe.

I bought my car because I couldn't find any other economy cars in my price range. Well, other than the Nissan Versa that is (yuck!)... and even my car was used. I can't afford an 18k car. Make cars cheap and people will buy them!

This is sort of true, but not really, I too would love cheap cars, i actually enjoyed the hand me down Yugo the week it still ran.

The trouble is the little smeg heads like him would not tolerate what a cheap car is either, much as you wouldn't own a versa (which to me is too big)

Self driving car? Hmm, i wonder what special interest has him paid off, maybe he needs an automatic ass wiper, food injector and robotic body cleaner to go with that.

he also could use someone to do his thinking for him so he isn't so burdened.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I can't disagree with him enough. I do believe a middle-class 20 something should be able to afford a new car. But what he said conflicts heavily. Self driving cars aren't going to be cheaper.

On the otherhand, I believe automakers should stop trying to get into the mobile electronics business and provide better platforms for customizing vehicles with personal tablets and smart phones. I can buy a bigger and better tablet that does far more than the clunky onboard navigation systems for less money. But car dashes are so busy that they have to be heavily modified to safely mount a tablet for navigation.

If anything they need to stop trying to make money only from selling overpriced, lower quality options and try to profit from actually building and selling cars.

Actually electronics use should be banned while driving, the tech to disable cells and the like in a car costs under $3 and would go much further to him not colliding into people than adding more electronic garbage to distract him with.

if you are going to drive, god damn it drive.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Except that I've never run into an EFI system that needed repair, whereas carbs needed repair all the time. And if you honestly think carbs were simple to repair, you have my unreserved admiration.

Buy a 93 suburban and you can run into that problem all you want.

Carbs were cheap to adjust and repair to good enough, but difficult to get perfect

Originally Posted by mechman600

I see lots of younger people starting apprenticeships in the shop I work [and do much of the training] at, which is a commercial truck stealership. It is amazing to see the lack of knack for fixing things in these kids. The common belief of management is that anyone can fix/diagnose anything with the correct training. What they do not realize is your knack for mechanics will largely determine how successful you become, regardless of training.

There are plenty of untrained mechanics who are very very good.
There are plenty of trained mechanics who are horrible.

This is because of people not actually doing anything, i mean literally, if we could start getting more young people back to being farmers like they should be you would see peoples knack come back slowly.

[War_Wagon]

People always think it's the car salesman that sticks it to you. It isn't, it's the sales manager/lease manager/Finance and Insurance guy (or gal). The salesman sells you on the car, the sales manager sells you on the price. And those guys make waaaaaay more than the salesman, because they are the ones that get you the payment you want, and get you to ignore just how much you actually end up paying for the thing! "I see you are drinking Starbucks, you know, for less than the price of that mocha a day, we can get you into an extended warranty, and get that upgraded stereo and alloys you wanted. We'll just work it into the monthly payment *cough for the next 6 years cough*. And the easiest people to get into paying high interest on credit are people that have either never had it before, or better still, someone that had it and then lost it. Tell someone that has never had a loan before, or hasn't been able to get one in a while that they are financed, and suddenly they want everything! It's both amazing and sad to watch, it's like they see it as their one chance to be instantly happy for only $599 a month, so they put themselves even deeper in debt because they can! I've actually seen someone come in looking for a $3000 car to get them around, then find out they could actually get financing for up to $15000, so they went and bought a $14k used BMW SUV at 29%, for no other reason than because they could!

People want shiny and new, they want it now, and they just want the bill sent to them at the end of the month. Just like the guy in the OP video.

[t vago]

Originally Posted by War_Wagon

It's both amazing and sad to watch, it's like they see it as their one chance to be instantly happy for only $599 a month, so they put themselves even deeper in debt because they can!

People tend to think that buying things will make them happy. Everybody does it, to some degree. However, some never learn - and keep buying stuff to get that temporary feeling of euphoria associated with buying a thing.

[jakobnev]

12*6*179=12888

U'd be a fool to pay 20k cash! :P

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by cbaber

It sounds like a great deal. Who wouldn't take an expensive car for a low low monthly payment?

But look at the big picture, and it's not a great deal. With no down payment, and lumping the taxes with the car price in the loan, you are immediately upside down on the loan when you sign the papers. If you ever need to sell it you have to cough up the difference to get out from underneath the loan. Even if you plan on keeping the car until you pay it off, by the time that happens you have just paid thousands of dollars in interest, on top of the price of the car. If you pay $20k cash you pay $20k cash. If you take out a loan you would pay $25-$30k for the same car.

The people that do this are constantly involved in car loans. They take out a 6 year loan on a new car. By the time they pay it off, the car has plenty of miles and would be considered older. Without a loan payment many people feel tempted to buy another car and take out another loan. This perpetual cycle leaves them paying banks to roll around in money, and keeping car companies happy. It all might sound convenient, but its financial stupidity.

Hypothetical numbers aside, my point is that banks and car dealers can work people over to the idea that the overall price is not important, and only the monthly amount matters. The overall price is what matters, not how much your loan payment is. Banks can restructure loans to make your payments whatever you want. But you will pay for it with interest.

Sir, it appears you do not realize that 179/month for six years is a much better deal than 20k up front. I hope you didn't pass this offer up.

Originally Posted by jakobnev

U'd be a fool to pay 20k cash! :P

This is what I was getting at...lol

[Fat Charlie]

The low payments are generally on leases. Low mileage ones.

Those are great- you don't own anything when the payments are up and if you actually used the car while you had it, you're on the hook for even more money at the end. And are sitting there in the showroom with no way to get home...

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

The low payments are generally on leases. Low mileage ones.

Those are great- you don't own anything when the payments are up and if you actually used the car while you had it, you're on the hook for even more money at the end. And are sitting there in the showroom with no way to get home...

Usually those low payments don't mention the 2-5k they expect as a down payment, either. "Lease the cheapest Mercedes/Volvo/Audi we have, for only 399 per month! And 2999 down w/ 1k miles/month at $.25/mile after..."