POPSCI: Why you can't sell me a car,

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by mechman600

There are plenty of untrained mechanics who are very very good.
There are plenty of trained mechanics who are horrible.

Well said

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Ryland

But more so, the point is, live where you spend your time!

Except I don't want to spend my life hiking/biking/skiing/riding the horse on the same few bits of trail that I can easily get to without a car.

But I have to say that this

I don't want to spend my life driving, I'd rather fly across country or take the train...

seems like a rather strange attitude. I'd rather drive to all the neat, fairly nearby (mostly within 50-100 mile radius) places than hop on a plane (or even a train) to cross the country, or go play tourist in some "exotic" foreign locale (which these days is exactly like back home), which is something a lot of those non car owning sorts seem to aspire to.

[Allch Chcar]

I can't disagree with him enough. I do believe a middle-class 20 something should be able to afford a new car. But what he said conflicts heavily. Self driving cars aren't going to be cheaper.

On the otherhand, I believe automakers should stop trying to get into the mobile electronics business and provide better platforms for customizing vehicles with personal tablets and smart phones. I can buy a bigger and better tablet that does far more than the clunky onboard navigation systems for less money. But car dashes are so busy that they have to be heavily modified to safely mount a tablet for navigation.

If anything they need to stop trying to make money only from selling overpriced, lower quality options and try to profit from actually building and selling cars.

[cbaber]

I guess some people are too good for used cars. Cheap, already manufactured (basically recycling), low insurance, and you don't have to worry about totaling it or getting door dings.

As a 20-something, I completely disagree with this guy. Sounds a bit spoiled to me. He seems to know what everyone wants, and what's best for them too. I bet if you looked at his annual electronics budget it would be more than my used car is worth.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by Xist

I have always heard of great $1000 cars. Wouldn't they belong in the unicorn coral?

I've had quite a few sub-$1000 cars that were nice.. they took a bit of work at first to undo the neglect they had seen at the hands of their FPO's but that's the key to a great cheap car, find one that's mostly sound but isn't running, then fix it.

I do get rather tired of (mostly older people) saying "DARN COMPUTERS ARE TOO COMPLICATED WHY DON'T WE JUST HAVE CARBURETORS" - fuel injection systems aren't really that difficult to operate. Yes, whole modules can simply die and need to be replaced as a unit - but diagnosing them isn't the nightmare that carbophiles make it out to be. The cars are smarter, don't blame them for your failure to do the same.

That said, high tech doesn't need to be synonymous with high complexity. In 1999 I made the leap from an 87 Mitsubishi with a parsec of vacuum hoses and an oxygen sensor controlled carburetor affectionately called The Rubik's Carb to a 99 Hyundai with one vacuum hose under the hood and generally as tidy and well-ordered an engine compartment as I had seen (that was me at 21 buying a brand new car on warehouse schmuck wages). The vehicle was undoubtedly higher technology, producing similar power from a third less displacement and other refinements - but I'm pretty sure it had a much lower piece count under the hood. Lower piece counts are good.

I'd love to see an automotive industry that bases their business model on the idea of 20 year+ cars. Make them modular and sell us the modules. Instead of profiting from selling brand new cars to those who can afford them (and almost no other profit), sell brand new cars that can be renewed and upgraded with engineered-in modularity. Finance buyers a hybrid powertrain for their 10 year old Jeep, made possible because you deliberately built the new ones around the same mounting points so it snaps right in to several years' and models of vehicle.

[Allch Chcar]

Cars are designed and built better than they used to be. They are more aerodynamic, with more powerful engines, better MPG, fewer emissions, better transmissions, better tires, and better crash standards. Technically they are cheaper too, if you only look at inflation. I've looked at used cars and the few cars I might buy are as old as I am. I have looked at most of the new cars available and none meet what I am looking for. Buying a car is a case of compromise, compromise, and even more compromise. I'm willing to pay a bit more to get what I want but I have very specific wants and needs.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by cbaber

I guess some people are too good for used cars. Cheap, already manufactured (basically recycling), low insurance, and you don't have to worry about totaling it or getting door dings.

As a 20-something, I completely disagree with this guy. Sounds a bit spoiled to me. He seems to know what everyone wants, and what's best for them too. I bet if you looked at his annual electronics budget it would be more than my used car is worth.

Agreed. I drove a junky beater until I found another junky beater I wanted, sold my old one, bought my new one. When it died, I kept the junkiest car that would get me by. It wasn't worth the $500 the dealer gave me for it, but under the right circumstance, I think I got a great deal, what I could afford. I'd rather save my pennies and buy what I want- a car that will last me +10 years, not a tablet that will be out of date before the end of the month.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I can't disagree with him enough. I do believe a middle-class 20 something should be able to afford a new car. But what he said conflicts heavily. Self driving cars aren't going to be cheaper.

On the otherhand, I believe automakers should stop trying to get into the mobile electronics business and provide better platforms for customizing vehicles with personal tablets and smart phones. I can buy a bigger and better tablet that does far more than the clunky onboard navigation systems for less money. But car dashes are so busy that they have to be heavily modified to safely mount a tablet for navigation.

If anything they need to stop trying to make money only from selling overpriced, lower quality options and try to profit from actually building and selling cars.

I would expect what Samsung is doing with televisions to start with automobiles soon. I know OSs are being updated, but surely they will realize their hardware will need upgrading, too.

Here is a blog talking about pros and cons, but the context explains what all it does, and how it would work for automobiles- which I think would benefit more than a television. Samsung’s upgradable TV: DOA, unless the company reinvents itself | ExtremeTech

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I can't disagree with him enough. I do believe a middle-class 20 something should be able to afford a new car.

At 20 I could afford a brand new car but I didn't buy one, you know what I did instead? I saved my money and at 27 paid cash for my house.

[cbaber]

Almost anyone can "afford" a brand new car. Look at the offers on TV commercials for everything from Dodge Rams to Kia's. The advertise the monthly price, rather than the overall price of the car. Many consumers are suckered into deals because they see the low low price of $179/month, often without down payments and with tax & title included in the loan.

If you asked if they would buy the car for $20,000 they would say no they can't afford it. But ask if they would pay $179/month and commit to 6 years of payments and they will sign up right away. Our society in general lacks the ability to look at the bigger picture. It's a consequence of our fast paced world where immediate gratification is now expected in every aspect of life.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by cbaber

Almost anyone can "afford" a brand new car. Look at the offers on TV commercials for everything from Dodge Rams to Kia's. The advertise the monthly price, rather than the overall price of the car. Many consumers are suckered into deals because they see the low low price of $179/month, often without down payments and with tax & title included in the loan.

If you asked if they would buy the car for $20,000 they would say no they can't afford it. But ask if they would pay $179/month and commit to 6 years of payments and they will sign up right away. Our society in general lacks the ability to look at the bigger picture. It's a consequence of our fast paced world where immediate gratification is now expected in every aspect of life.

If I could pay 179/month tax, title, no down payment, out the door, for a 20k car, I would definitely do it.