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Old 03-05-2013, 03:32 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
the trouble would be the time it takes for the water to heat, since you wouldn't have pollution control during that time or be in limp mode.
Exactly like DEF, which freezes at -11C (12F). The SCR (NOx scrubbing) system does not work at all until the fluid is thawed (by engine coolant in the DEF tank and electrically heated DEF lines) and the pump can prime. However, the EPA allows for this and calculates emissions based on the average engine's entire lifetime, including "frozen DEF events." The same logic could easily be applied to frozen water injection tanks.

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:25 PM   #42 (permalink)
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PressEnter[] The early Scion xa and xb as well as the yaris has center dashes. I liked it. That allowed for a drivers side glove box.

That also allowed room to laster your dash board with crap on a stickie mat since the air bag is made into the steering wheel vs pops out the dash like the passenger side.

I drove a prius 3, that dash was a but too busy in my opinion for a new driver.

Vern, maybe I can hook up with you when I need another car or we can do a trade for a mercedes for my insight?

I bought my mothers sidekick and abter 500 bucks in oil, filters, plugs and typical tune up stuff, 500 bucks in tires and another 500 bucks in suspension parts its not a bad vehicle. Of wait, add another 80 bucks for a new battery. It gets 29 mpg. I just hope once I get it right I get some pay back vs a mney pit like my old geo metro was.

That car I paid 100 for it, spent 4 grand and went about 4 thousand miles. Instead of taking a baseball bat to all the windows, lamps and body panels I sold it to a mechanic.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:36 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varn View Post
A comment on water injection. Here in the midwest we have a lot of minerals in the water and winter weather.

I would be afraid to run tap water. Not positive it that is a real concern, perhaps oil pan can include his thoughts. I know my faucets become unusable in 3-4 years. Would hate to see it develop on the piston crowns or valve gear.
As far as I can tell all the diesel guys run tap water and have not reported any problems.
Part of water injections problem is when you use water injection you will need to burn about as much water as fuel.
On road trips you will need to refill.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:12 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I don't hate the car; but I hate the fact that I have yet to have seen one driven
smoothly in the way that most of us would drive.

Why does it have whited out tailights like a 16 year old might want? Is that a ploy
to get younger people interested in one?

Its still hard to see around the smug factor so many owners have. It reminds me
of some I'm better than you Porsche people past, present...future!!!
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:40 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrybuck View Post
Its still hard to see around the smug factor so many owners have. It reminds me
of some I'm better than you Porsche people past, present...future!!!
I often feel that way too; that other Prius drivers think they are more entitled, more righteous, more enlightened, more cool, more intelligent, generally just more awesome. On very rare occasion, I realize that I think these same things of myself pretty much constantly. We all do. Even if we concede that we may not be as expert in subjects such as math, geography, or auto mechanics, somehow our imagination tells us that we possess the right answers to all of the important things in life, and that our lives reflect this special understanding.

When I spot a smug Prius driver, I get a smug grin on my face as I tell myself that I'm awesome for not being one of those idiots. Hopefully by writing this, I will be more aware that smug Acura TSX drivers are just as obnoxious.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:42 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Many hybrid owners, or occasionally just hybrid enthusiasts who can't afford one, make my blood boil when they start to brag about what they consider a "perfect" vehicle, but they seem to forget that it might not fullfit the requirements of other people. In my opinion, a Prius or any other gasoline-powered doesn't make so much more sense than a Diesel-powered vehicle which has similar performance and fuel-efficiency figures.

Diesels have their advantages regarding the higher thermal efficiency than an Otto-cycle engine, and also their adaptability to alternative fuels. For me they're most practical, altough some people often don't agree. And I can actually understand why some folks are objecting to Diesel, since they're getting too complicated due to the poorly-designed emissions control devices.

It's also worth to note what Mazda achieved with the SkyActiv-D engine, which has a 14:1 compression ratio, extremely low for Diesel standards, but leads to a complete combustion at lower temperatures, and then a lesser amount of NOx is generated - doesn't even require neither EGR or DEF to meet current EPA requirements, and also doesn't require a DPF. To avoid some smoke-belching during cold-starts, there are ceramic glow plugs, which also last longer than a metallic one, requiring less replacements.

I'd still rather get a Diesel instead of a hybrid, both for practical reasons (mainly regarding old-school Diesels due to their simplicity and ability to operate under harsh environmental conditions) and also because I like Diesels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
You can antifreeze your water for water injection.
Likely addtives are methanol, propylene glycol, maybe glycerol and urea.
The DEF has 32.5% urea and can freeze. Also, I'd not want to run urea inside the engine.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:49 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
It's also worth to note what Mazda achieved with the SkyActiv-D engine, which has a 14:1 compression ratio, extremely low for Diesel standards, but leads to a complete combustion at lower temperatures, and then a lesser amount of NOx is generated - doesn't even require neither EGR or DEF to meet current EPA requirements, and also doesn't require a DPF.
Not true. The SkyActiv-D engine has HIGH flow EGR and a DPF. The only thing lacking is aftertreatment for NOx reduction.

Still a very cool engine with interesting technology.
-Under certain conditions, the variable lift exhaust valves open during the intake stroke to allow cylinders to draw hot exhaust in to increase temperatures during low power situations - necessary with such a low compression ratio. This is aided by an intake throttle.
-Lightened up parts allow for a 5200 RPM redline.

A good story and writeup here:
Mazda
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:58 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Being SMUG doesnt begin to describe me.....

Should of, would of, could of, if a Hybrid Diesel was such a great vehicles we would have several auto manufactures over seas making them, if not a few in the US too.

Granted Audi showed off with their Diesel race car a few years ago and BMW has had some sporty vehicles, but it too fizzled out in the US. Hell, I think even VW changed their mind about introducting several of the diesel turbo power trains for the VW bug and the new ultra low sulfur diesel axed the rest of them.

Since they do not exist, what does that tell you???

Til then Ill stick with my 103 mpg insight that seats 5.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:02 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
The DEF has 32.5% urea and can freeze. Also, I'd not want to run urea inside the engine.
Most common materials will freeze some where on this planet.
Just have to find what would be most agreeable with the water injection concept in given climates.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:34 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Most common materials will freeze some where on this planet.
Just have to find what would be most agreeable with the water injection concept in given climates.
Either ethanol or methanol. Not just due to the freezing, but I'd also not want to run urea inside an engine, just look how it's used in Diesels only at the exhaust...

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