Prius haters + Hybrids & [Bio?] Diesels

[mechman600]

I used to be a Prius hater. It was because of the Pious owner's notion that they were saving the world by driving one, when in reality they still burn gas and they still pollute.

My tune changed when I realized that in its most basic sense, a Prius is simply an economical, practical car. EPA is 50 combined. EPA for my Matrix (the same size of car, more or less, with auto trans) is 27. If that's not enough reason for me to want one, I don't know what is.

I used to want a diesel. I am a diesel mechanic, so why wouldn't I? But I have changed my tune because working around the latest and greatest "clean" diesels has proven that even they stink like hell and are disgusting.

And then there is the biodiesel angle. It may offset carbon somewhat (if that even matters or not) but biodiesel doesn't make smoke that is any less stinky or gross. So I hesitate to fall into that bandwagon - making a bit less net carbon but still producing high NOx and particulates and whatever else.

I invite the educated to chime in, as I am only going by what my nose is telling me.

[UltArc]

I dislike smug Prius people. In Ohio, 80% of the Prius owners beat the crap out of them, and one person I know gets about 40 mpg in theirs.

I think the Prius is great, it seems like a great car. From my limited experience, I don't knkw of anything bad with them. Maybe replacing the battery at some point?

I would sooner go Insight, then CRZ, then Mirage, then the Olio three wheeler, then a Prius lol. But they seem like good cars.

[pete c]

I know you invited edumacated folk, but, i'm gonna put my 2 cents in anyhoo.

The prius is an awesome car if you do predominantly urban driving. I think it is particularly good if you mix in some hills. I was in SF last summer and noticed that pretty much all the cabs are Prii. This makes sense as they can recoup some of the potential energy while going down those hills.

If most of your driving is secondary or hiway, I think a TDI is the way to go. It is a nicer hiway cruiser where all that hybrid stuff is just dead weight.

[Flakbadger]

I dislike diesel quite a lot; it's very expensive to repair a diesel engine if they do break, they smell bad, they are noisy (even in modern cars with very good sound damping) and in the case of Semi trucks (in my state at least) are completely unregulated and are allowed to belch clouds of black smoke. Meanwhile I pay $200 every 2 years to have my little tiny 1.5 liter tested by the DEQ. Admittedly it makes me a little jealous.

Some of the reason I dislike diesel is because of that jealousy, but much of it just boils down to simply disliking their pollution. Diesels are not clean engines, no matter what some on this forum would have you believe.

EDIT: I forgot to post the second part!

As for the Prius, I appreciate the engineering that went into it and think they're pretty amazing, but I very much dislike the pollution the battery packs produce when manufactured, distributed, and recycled, as much of that process takes place (often) in China, where they are free from environmental oversight. Same reason I don't own an iPhone even though it's the trendy thing to do.

[PressEnter[]]

I have nothing against hybrids, but have no interest in the current Prius. As far as I'm concerned it's just another bloated sedan with no manual option (dealbreaker for me) and a price tag that far outweighs any gas savings. I like diesels, but I feel similar about the TDI's available in the US. It's hard to swallow an extra $5K over the gas models for only 40 mpg.

[Rusty94cx]

What about the fact that diesel is now .50 or so more a gallon and how much is the urea fluid that some now require? More cents per gallon. I thought I wanted a TDI but alas there are better options in my mind.

[pete c]

Originally Posted by PressEnter[]

I have nothing against hybrids, but have no interest in the current Prius. As far as I'm concerned it's just another bloated sedan with no manual option (dealbreaker for me) and a price tag that far outweighs any gas savings. I like diesels, but I feel similar about the TDI's available in the US. It's hard to swallow an extra $5K over the gas models for only 40 mpg.

I agree concerning TDIs. I just don't get 5K difference. I can't imagine a turbo costs more than a grand when mass produced. The internals are a little stouter, but, they are more or less the same, not much difference in cost. The injection system is also a little more heavy duty. I wonder how much is in the emissions system?

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by mechman600

I used to want a diesel. I am a diesel mechanic, so why wouldn't I? But I have changed my tune because working around the latest and greatest "clean" diesels has proven that even they stink like hell and are disgusting.

And then there is the biodiesel angle. It may offset carbon somewhat (if that even matters or not) but biodiesel doesn't make smoke that is any less stinky or gross. So I hesitate to fall into that bandwagon - making a bit less net carbon but still producing high NOx and particulates and whatever else.

Get the new diesel and hack all the emmissions BS out of it, reprogram the computer for economy and make the new technology run more like an old diesel engine. But over all it would run a lot cleaner with the prefectly timed high pressure common rail injection compared to old mechanical injection.

[Cobb]

My only gripe about hybrids is those who say the battery pollutes the envronment. As Ive seen on the insight forum people recycle battery sticks for other cars and ev projects. Ive takened a few dead sticks to the battery recycle box at the local hardware store.

As for mining, hybrids arent the only things on earth that use batteries. I bet your cell phone has caused more pollution than any hybrids and if that one section of earth is dedicated for raw materials for batteries, does it matter whats its used for? Its not like a clean area was chosen for prius battery production, but rather an existing deposit is used for that vs x,y,z.

I think the "new" diesel is the latest scam on the public next to clean coal. The vehicles cost more to buy, more to operate, more to maintain and only give slightly better mpg. I think the direct injected dual turbo gassers are about on par with a diesel in all regards.

[mechman600]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Get the new diesel and hack all the emmissions BS out of it, reprogram the computer for economy and make the new technology run more like an old diesel engine. But over all it would run a lot cleaner with the prefectly timed high pressure common rail injection compared to old mechanical injection.

Oh, I hear you. It is EASILY done and at least in the 2007-2009 products, it makes them run much nicer - but much much dirtier. I do not agree with removing modern aftertreatment systems, even though economics often dictates otherwise. I believe they are a necessity and once the growing pains are mostly over, nobody will notice them anymore. I would say that 50% of my job is dealing with aftertreatment issues, but I can see that they are slowly improving.

To throw a wrench in the discussion, I found a biodiesel vs diesel emissions chart. It kind of goes against what I thought about biodiesel:
http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-ba...fact-sheet.pdf