Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2013, 08:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mechman600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 1,226

Fusion - '16 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
Thanks: 190
Thanked 272 Times in 166 Posts
Prius haters + Hybrids & [Bio?] Diesels

I used to be a Prius hater. It was because of the Pious owner's notion that they were saving the world by driving one, when in reality they still burn gas and they still pollute.

My tune changed when I realized that in its most basic sense, a Prius is simply an economical, practical car. EPA is 50 combined. EPA for my Matrix (the same size of car, more or less, with auto trans) is 27. If that's not enough reason for me to want one, I don't know what is.

I used to want a diesel. I am a diesel mechanic, so why wouldn't I? But I have changed my tune because working around the latest and greatest "clean" diesels has proven that even they stink like hell and are disgusting.

And then there is the biodiesel angle. It may offset carbon somewhat (if that even matters or not) but biodiesel doesn't make smoke that is any less stinky or gross. So I hesitate to fall into that bandwagon - making a bit less net carbon but still producing high NOx and particulates and whatever else.

I invite the educated to chime in, as I am only going by what my nose is telling me.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mechman600 For This Useful Post:
Cobb (03-03-2013)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
Hydrogen > EV
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NW Ohio, United States
Posts: 2,017

Snow White and the 6.2 Dwarfs - '11 Chevrolet Corvette LT2
Last 3: 26.46 mpg (US)

Silver Flea - '05 Honda Insight
90 day: 58.96 mpg (US)
Thanks: 981
Thanked 383 Times in 279 Posts
I dislike smug Prius people. In Ohio, 80% of the Prius owners beat the crap out of them, and one person I know gets about 40 mpg in theirs.

I think the Prius is great, it seems like a great car. From my limited experience, I don't knkw of anything bad with them. Maybe replacing the battery at some point?

I would sooner go Insight, then CRZ, then Mirage, then the Olio three wheeler, then a Prius lol. But they seem like good cars.
__________________





Best Tanks:
Mustang - 54.83 mpg (US) at the Green Grand Prix
Insight - 82.91966 mpg (US) over 818.5 miles.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 08:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ellington, ct
Posts: 829
Thanks: 44
Thanked 102 Times in 79 Posts
I know you invited edumacated folk, but, i'm gonna put my 2 cents in anyhoo.

The prius is an awesome car if you do predominantly urban driving. I think it is particularly good if you mix in some hills. I was in SF last summer and noticed that pretty much all the cabs are Prii. This makes sense as they can recoup some of the potential energy while going down those hills.

If most of your driving is secondary or hiway, I think a TDI is the way to go. It is a nicer hiway cruiser where all that hybrid stuff is just dead weight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
Always Too Busy
 
Flakbadger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 520

White Lightning - '17 Nissan Leaf SV
Team Leaf
90 day: 136.65 mpg (US)
Thanks: 386
Thanked 152 Times in 117 Posts
I dislike diesel quite a lot; it's very expensive to repair a diesel engine if they do break, they smell bad, they are noisy (even in modern cars with very good sound damping) and in the case of Semi trucks (in my state at least) are completely unregulated and are allowed to belch clouds of black smoke. Meanwhile I pay $200 every 2 years to have my little tiny 1.5 liter tested by the DEQ. Admittedly it makes me a little jealous.

Some of the reason I dislike diesel is because of that jealousy, but much of it just boils down to simply disliking their pollution. Diesels are not clean engines, no matter what some on this forum would have you believe.

EDIT: I forgot to post the second part!

As for the Prius, I appreciate the engineering that went into it and think they're pretty amazing, but I very much dislike the pollution the battery packs produce when manufactured, distributed, and recycled, as much of that process takes place (often) in China, where they are free from environmental oversight. Same reason I don't own an iPhone even though it's the trendy thing to do.
__________________
Nissan Leaf driver? Join me in Team Leaf and feel smugly superior about our MPGe

Current Car: White Lightning

----------------------------------------------

Retired Car: Betty White
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 09:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
PressEnter[]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Saratoga County, NY
Posts: 170

TheEgg - '18 Volkswagen Tiguan SEL Premium
90 day: 27.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
I have nothing against hybrids, but have no interest in the current Prius. As far as I'm concerned it's just another bloated sedan with no manual option (dealbreaker for me) and a price tag that far outweighs any gas savings. I like diesels, but I feel similar about the TDI's available in the US. It's hard to swallow an extra $5K over the gas models for only 40 mpg.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 09:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 297

Rusty crusty trusty - '94 Honda Civic Cx
90 day: 36.13 mpg (US)

Vx - '92 Honda Civic Vx
90 day: 49.97 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4
Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts
What about the fact that diesel is now .50 or so more a gallon and how much is the urea fluid that some now require? More cents per gallon. I thought I wanted a TDI but alas there are better options in my mind.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rusty94cx For This Useful Post:
Cobb (03-03-2013)
Old 03-03-2013, 09:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ellington, ct
Posts: 829
Thanks: 44
Thanked 102 Times in 79 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PressEnter[] View Post
I have nothing against hybrids, but have no interest in the current Prius. As far as I'm concerned it's just another bloated sedan with no manual option (dealbreaker for me) and a price tag that far outweighs any gas savings. I like diesels, but I feel similar about the TDI's available in the US. It's hard to swallow an extra $5K over the gas models for only 40 mpg.
I agree concerning TDIs. I just don't get 5K difference. I can't imagine a turbo costs more than a grand when mass produced. The internals are a little stouter, but, they are more or less the same, not much difference in cost. The injection system is also a little more heavy duty. I wonder how much is in the emissions system?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 09:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 9,037

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 215
Thanked 2,951 Times in 2,299 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
I used to want a diesel. I am a diesel mechanic, so why wouldn't I? But I have changed my tune because working around the latest and greatest "clean" diesels has proven that even they stink like hell and are disgusting.

And then there is the biodiesel angle. It may offset carbon somewhat (if that even matters or not) but biodiesel doesn't make smoke that is any less stinky or gross. So I hesitate to fall into that bandwagon - making a bit less net carbon but still producing high NOx and particulates and whatever else.
Get the new diesel and hack all the emmissions BS out of it, reprogram the computer for economy and make the new technology run more like an old diesel engine. But over all it would run a lot cleaner with the prefectly timed high pressure common rail injection compared to old mechanical injection.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 10:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 276 Times in 226 Posts
My only gripe about hybrids is those who say the battery pollutes the envronment. As Ive seen on the insight forum people recycle battery sticks for other cars and ev projects. Ive takened a few dead sticks to the battery recycle box at the local hardware store.

As for mining, hybrids arent the only things on earth that use batteries. I bet your cell phone has caused more pollution than any hybrids and if that one section of earth is dedicated for raw materials for batteries, does it matter whats its used for? Its not like a clean area was chosen for prius battery production, but rather an existing deposit is used for that vs x,y,z.

I think the "new" diesel is the latest scam on the public next to clean coal. The vehicles cost more to buy, more to operate, more to maintain and only give slightly better mpg. I think the direct injected dual turbo gassers are about on par with a diesel in all regards.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mechman600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 1,226

Fusion - '16 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
Thanks: 190
Thanked 272 Times in 166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Get the new diesel and hack all the emmissions BS out of it, reprogram the computer for economy and make the new technology run more like an old diesel engine. But over all it would run a lot cleaner with the prefectly timed high pressure common rail injection compared to old mechanical injection.
Oh, I hear you. It is EASILY done and at least in the 2007-2009 products, it makes them run much nicer - but much much dirtier. I do not agree with removing modern aftertreatment systems, even though economics often dictates otherwise. I believe they are a necessity and once the growing pains are mostly over, nobody will notice them anymore. I would say that 50% of my job is dealing with aftertreatment issues, but I can see that they are slowly improving.

To throw a wrench in the discussion, I found a biodiesel vs diesel emissions chart. It kind of goes against what I thought about biodiesel:
http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-ba...fact-sheet.pdf

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com