Prius haters + Hybrids & [Bio?] Diesels

[UFO]

Originally Posted by mechman600

I was assuming the use of a pre-DPF engine. I don't think I would risk running bio-D in a common rail engine - the tolerances are too tight and the room for error is too great. Consider that the secondary filters are now, what, 5 microns? 3? I forget. A set of injectors and a HP pump head would cost you about $4500 + labor.
Believe me, I have changed a few!

The tolerances in the CR diesels are irrelevant, if the filters keep debris out of the fuel system, you are fine. Biodiesel is a liquid with smaller molecules than a set of diesel hydrocarbons.

I've been burning B100 and blends in my Jeep CRD for 80k miles with no fuel related issues so far, aside from a gelling incident in below zero conditions. Not to say nothing will eventually degrade as a result, but there are lots of dead ones run on straight petro-diesel.

I hate the smell of diesel smoke too, but I have grown quite tolerant of the smell of biodiesel, much less acrid, and less visible too.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by mechman600

IFDo you have good solid empirical data on water injection vs. emissions vs. g/hp-hr? I know the hot rodded diesel pickup guys use it to prevent unwanted large bangs when pushing hard.

The Science Of Diesel Emissions Reduction - Diesel Power Magazine

Reduction of Diesel Engine Emissions by Water Injection

Experimental Study of Inlet Manifold Water Injection on a Common Rail HSDI Automobile Diesel Engine, Compared to EGR with Respect to PM and Nox Emissions and Specific Consumption

You don't need to treat NOx if you never create it.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The Science Of Diesel Emissions Reduction - Diesel Power Magazine

Reduction of Diesel Engine Emissions by Water Injection

Experimental Study of Inlet Manifold Water Injection on a Common Rail HSDI Automobile Diesel Engine, Compared to EGR with Respect to PM and Nox Emissions and Specific Consumption

Its amazing the things we could do nearly for free 40+ years ago are being verified eh?

The above is why diesels were always used in mines for decades; water injection/water wash = pollution free (no co, no nox and no soot)

[Flakbadger]

Jesus, why didn't anyone ever tell me this stuff?! Thanks for the links, those are awesome!

[Xist]

Originally Posted by pete c

The prius is an awesome car if you do predominantly urban driving. I think it is particularly good if you mix in some hills. I was in SF last summer and noticed that pretty much all the cabs are Prii. This makes sense as they can recoup some of the potential energy while going down those hills.

The Phoenix area is extremely flat, but there are countless Prius taxis. Now, the one specific reason that I want a Prius is for the hills and canyons between here and my parents' house, but I would appreciate improved mileage everywhere.

I absolutely do not think that hybrids are the solution to any of our problems. Someone linked a video for "Cool Earth" and the guy said that if everyone started driving a Prius, pollution would decrease by 0.5%.

Now, my Subaru gets half of the mileage, but it was produced well over a decade ago, and I have to wonder how long I would need to drive a Prius before the pollution balanced out, not to mention the cost.

I read that the traction battery has come down in price a couple of times. The technology will continue to improve, and as there are more electric cars, that technology will also improve, as well as become more affordable.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

The other thing that I dislike about the Prius is the other little design stupidities, like that center-mounted display screen, the ignition switch that doesn't actually turn off the engine...

That is the first that I have heard of the ignition not turning off when you tell it to. My nerd rage would kick in.

I knew a girl that had one of the first Echos and she gave us a ride, telling us how much she loved it. I was sorely disappointed and could not understand why her instrument cluster was in the middle. She said that she liked that, too, but when I continued asking questions, she admitted that she tended to speed because she forgot to check.

My last girlfriend had a Yaris and she said that she bought it because she was only five feet tall and could not normally see the speedometer.

Ever read the speedometer of the Mini in front of you?

[redpoint5]

The Prius was among the final vehicles I considered purchasing when I started looking in 2008. While I've only had 1 test drive, I still admire the technology that is employed by the Prius. However, I also favor diesel vehicles over gasoline due to the 30% greater work done per volume of fuel.

Diesel engines are more efficient, more reliable, more easily turbo-charged, and more easily fueled (diversity of fuel). I am among the few that enjoy the sound and smell of a diesel engine. Sometimes I turn the radio off just to hear the music of the turbo spool.

That said, I don't see the point of comparing a specific hybrid (Prius) to all diesel vehicles. It's like comparing a hand grenade to a cruise missile.

Originally Posted by Cobb

Id hope the environment is considered in everyones quest for mpg.

I don't consider the environment at all in my quest for MPG. Economics and an interest in efficiency are my only concern. That's not to say that environmentalism is not important to me. Quite the opposite; but I realize the counter-intuitive reality that efficiency and conservation are often not correlated. The economics of energy consumption is such that reducing consumption (demand) also reduces prices, which in turn increases consumption.

The earth doesn't care if someone conserves a gallon of petrol, and it certainly isn't a reason to feel morally superior to anyone else.

Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave

I think the big issue is that accuratly defining terms like "clean", "green", and "eco-friendly" is not an easy task--even by people who are trying to be honest, fair, and objective.

This is particularly true since most to these definitions involve comparing something that does exist to some alternative that is assumed would have existed in it's place.

This reminds me of an interesting article I just read that challenges the definition of nature, of good environment, and who manages the environment.

“Do humans impose costs on nature or just on other humans? Can we think of nature in any other way than imposing costs on other people?”

Ecosystems have no preferences about their states. How do we know whether or not an acre of land would “prefer” to be a swamp or a cornfield?

[War_Wagon]

Originally Posted by mechman600

I invite the educated to chime in, as I am only going by what my nose is telling me.

Well I don't know if I qualify as educated, but I will tell you my opinion. I have a 2001 Prius, I think they are a neat idea. Yes, a lot of people probably think that if they want to make a difference then that's all they have to do - buy one. I have had diesels as well. With the intent of going biodiesel. Mainly because I liked the idea of not having to rely on a gas station for my fuel supply. But the reality is, man I don't have the time to scrounge up WVO etc, and at the end of the day if I am not fully committed to sourcing that fuel, filtering it, etc, then for my application it's useless. Sure there are lots of Prius posers out there, but I would rather them be Prius posers than Escalade posers. I drink PBR. Hipsters drink PBR. I hate hipsters, but that won't stop me from liking PBR. I think the same rule applies to the Prius. If it is an easy way for people to drive something easy on fuel and the environment, then I can deal with ignoring some of the smug clods that drive them. They do what they were designed to do, who cares who is behind the wheel?

[mechman600]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The Science Of Diesel Emissions Reduction - Diesel Power Magazine

Reduction of Diesel Engine Emissions by Water Injection

Experimental Study of Inlet Manifold Water Injection on a Common Rail HSDI Automobile Diesel Engine, Compared to EGR with Respect to PM and Nox Emissions and Specific Consumption

You don't need to treat NOx if you never create it.

Wow...thanks for those links. It really pisses me off that manufacturers [because of mandates by the EPA?] don't go this route. But I guess filling the water injection tank with H2O (or a H2O/CH3OH solution) does little to fuel a separate DEF economy that the EPA (or friends of those in those within) no doubt reap the benefits of.

[PressEnter[]]

Re: the center gauge cluster...I finally found out it's so it doesn't have to be changed for left hand vs. right hand drive markets.

I don't like it, though. My brother had one of the first Yarises, and it's just too odd (as well as unbelievably slow with the automatic).

[320touring]

Originally Posted by mechman600

I was assuming the use of a pre-DPF engine. I don't think I would risk running bio-D in a common rail engine - the tolerances are too tight and the room for error is too great. Consider that the secondary filters are now, what, 5 microns? 3? I forget. A set of injectors and a HP pump head would cost you about $4500 + labor.
Believe me, I have changed a few!

I'd agree wiith this,

My old AAZ engine is happy on 30% veg oil, straight in the tank. Its an ld in-direct injection motor though.

I wouldnt try it on a TDI without converting to Bio-Diesel.

Re the hybrid/Diesel discussion,

My daily commute is approx 64 miles, and about 80% Motorway or Fast A road.. A hybrid is not really suited to this (in terms of best use of the electic motor) whereas a Diesel comes into its own lopping along at 2400rpm at 55mph.

If I were to do more town work, then either a Hybrid or a pure electric would work well.

I'm hoping the Veg oil reduces my emissions too- mind you, the cat should sort that out after a fashion