Prius VS. TDI (which to buy)

[dremd]

Originally Posted by COcyclist

If "cheap, immediate" replacement is truly the issue, a small used Corolla (gas/manual tranny) may be what you need. You pay a premium for the extra technology in either the Prius or TDi that could take years to recoup through fuel savings alone. Used Toyota gassers should be plentiful and reliable even if they give up a little in ultimate fuel economy.

If you want fuel economy and performance too, get the TDi.

I second this statement, but also add Civic to the Corolla I'm a Toyota guy but I can't skip over the Civic's reliability, quality, performance.

[BrianAbington]

I've looked at a couple of those as well. I have also found a 2002 Saturn SC2. My sons seat fits in the back really well. Its a 5spd and runs great. Plus the SC2 only has a .32cd. It has a nice slick wedge profile so it would be very easy to ecomod, and its easy to hit 30-35mpg easily.

[dcb]

That sounds cool, and you have an easy 5th gear swap if you want to put an s1 5th gear in there for lower hiway RPMs. Takes me like 15 minutes to swap 5th on a sw2 (plus a trip to the boneyard).

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...swap-2779.html

[BrianAbington]

Originally Posted by dcb

That sounds cool, and you have an easy 5th gear swap if you want to put an s1 5th gear in there for lower hiway RPMs. Takes me like 15 minutes to swap 5th on a sw2 (plus a trip to the boneyard).

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...swap-2779.html

sounds interesting think I'll have to do that if I wind up with this car.

[dcb]

The stick shift s-series saturns are a real hypermilers bargain. You can do a lot worse for a lot more money. They are just a pain to work on for alternators and starters etc, except that 5th gear thing. Also you have to keep the oil topped off, they all burn oil, it's normal. But I'm a big fan of the s-series (there's a lot of s-series fans), wish saturn hadn't have gotten rid of them.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Deezler

Or, using my car as an example, how the diesel engine is epa rated at 44 mpg while the 2.0L gas is rated at 29 mpg. (52% better mileage with 12% more btu's per gal.

The EPA adjusts for the energy content of the fuel, so that's straight up 52% better mileage.

Originally Posted by Deezler

Before the EPA decided to lie about average diesel fuel economy, the stickers showed a 58% advantage for the diesel engine.)

Lie? All the EPA did was change the ratings to reflect higher speeds, accessory use, and more aggressive driving in general. An average of 48mph with a high in the low sixties on the highway just doesn't cut it anymore as an accurate yardstick of driver habits. Granted, SI engines came out of this comparison better due to higher average load/fewer throttling losses, but diesels still have a ~35% advantage all things being equal. Saying the EPA lied about anything is at best erroneous and at worst nothing more than rhetoric.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by dcb

I don't know why there isn't a diesel hybrid. Just a big enough diesel to keep you moving on the hiway and recharge a bit (and give you some decent biofuel options), and an electric motor to help with the acceleration up to speed and around town.

Diminishing returns...

[NiHaoMike]

Either get an easy biodiesel conversion with the TDI or get an easy PHEV conversion with the Prius. Go with whatever's more useful.

I'd say Prius because I would expect the supply of used vegetable oil to diminish as biodiesel becomes more popular (not to mention demand by commercial biodiesel companies!). On the other hand, there's a seemingly endless ways to generate your own electricity. For example, if you live near a river, a waterwheel can provide surprisingly reliable power. Or if you live in a cold climate, you could CHP from natural gas to generate electricity while heating your house.

Oh, and gasoline is currently cheaper than diesel.

[bwilson4web]

From Fuel Economy

City/Hwy (combined) - make model year, user count and MPG, cost/gal
48/45 (46) - Toyota Prius 2008, 102 users report 46.3 MPG, $1.93/gal
30/41 (34) - Volkswagon TDI Jetta 2009, 8 users report 40.5, $2.22/gal
30/37 (33) - Volkswagon TDI Jetta 2006, 65 users report 42.6, $2.22/gal

So with the Jetta TDI I get:

1. more expensive diesel fuel and less common
2. lower highway mileage, 41 < 45
3. much lower city mileage, 30 << 48
4. 'Compact car' instead of 'Midsize car'
5. must be manual for these mileage numbers
6. $22,270 MSRP (Edmunds) vs. $22,000 MSRP (Toyota)

Of course other folks have different requirements and there are of course those who are involved in various stunts:

109.3 MPG Prius August 2005
There is the Japanese 1,000 mile tank club with over 200 members.

I don't approve of 'stunts' since it leads to a lot of foolish claims not easily replicated by others. Stunts eliminate engineering practices and appeal to other values but I also understand 'bling.'

Bob Wilson

ps. Did I mention this is the NHW20 model. The 2010 Prius has even better mileage, more space, and better performance.

[Morescratch]

You are spreading disinformation. VW is topping the quality and reliability lists. Yes, they used to have problems but so did Toyota and Honda. Toyota used to build the worst cars and now build some of the best. Honda built the most dangerous car ever sold in America and now builds some of the safest. VW used to build some of the most unreliable cars but now build some of the most reliable. You are doing this forum a disservice and insult the intelligence of the readership by spreading such nonsensical information. Timing belt problems with VW's??? VW's use timing chains... Diesel pumps almost never fail... We aren't interested in your personal biases and/or opinions unless they are based on fact. Plus, your assessment that our neighbours to the south can't build good cars is borderline racist and most definitely based on opinion rather than fact. A disappointing post.

Originally Posted by budomove

The TDI is an awesome car that I have always wanted, but there seem to be so many lemons when it comes to VWs. Diesel is so artificially high right now, yet VWs hold their high value due to the fact that they are rare and sought after. If cost of ownership and maintainence is high on your list, say higher than fun, then i would go with the prius. Hybrids are dirt cheap now due to low gas prices, yet used TDIs are still way expensive. When a turbo on a TDI goes, expect to pay out 2k, same with the injection pump. Not to mention annoying little things like the same headlight burning out time and time again, headlight harness needing replacement, window motors and regulators needing replacement (several times), and just basic electric items that seem engineered to fail in order to bring in more revenue...that or the fact that they can't build VWs well in the Mexican plant which is where the TDIs are produced if i am not mistaken.