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View Poll Results: Which car should I buy?
Toyota Prius 22 34.92%
VW TDI 41 65.08%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-22-2009, 03:36 AM   #31 (permalink)
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If you're going for mileage get the VW, if you're going for environmental impact get the VW.
Doing highway miles with stop start, the extra torque of a TDI will be much better assuming you're driving a manual gearbox.

I remember reading the prius does more environmental damage before it gets out the factory than a normal car does in several hundred thousand miles of driving.

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Old 02-22-2009, 09:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almightybmw View Post
VW must be using a pure sh_t turbo. My parents old 1988 Mazda 626 GT is still on the stock turbo with 210K miles, motor never rebuild. 3 radiators yes (plastic endtanks suck), but no other motor work done. IHI RHB5 VJ11 was the turbo. Water and oil cooled.
I do realize that this has already been replied to; but my has 190,000 miles on it with zero problems. I puled the inlet hose off yesterday to check for shaft play. None.

Now the real issue with VW (here anyways) is the dealers (stealers) I had to drive 72 miles (each way) for the nearest one (brake switch recall) When I get it back I have a series of new issues 1) No more splash shield 2) Injection timing all of a sudden was so far off it took 1 minute + to start cold 3) grease on steering wheel. They also claimed that I needed a Turbo And Injection pump. I did contact VW about my complaints and got nothing for my efforts.
So in the long run replacing a $30 switch took me nearly 150 miles of driving, 2 days, a big headache, and a splash shield.

Sorry for the rant; I only have experience with 1 dealer I *hope* that all of the rest of them are great.
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:32 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Rule number 1 of owning a TDI: Never go to the dealer, EVER! Except maybe as a last resort to get a part, but don't let them touch your car. Head over to TDIclub.com and find yourself a local trusted mechanic. You'll end up a lot happier with more cash in your pocket.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tasdrouille View Post
Rule number 1 of owning a TDI: Never go to the dealer, EVER!
Yup, and I knew that, I just thought that they would leave me alone on a recall . . . . .

I have plenty of friends who bring their toyotas (some 20 years old) to Toyota and I don't feel that they get raped.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:57 AM   #35 (permalink)
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That's th thing with a TDi, you more or less have to do some research and know a little about the car.

If you depend on the dealer, your going to end up paying a lot more, and the dealers know very little about the cars.

Luckly, I'm, able to do all my own work.

I can not wait until Honda or Toyota starts selling a desiel here.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:31 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana View Post
I remember reading the prius does more environmental damage before it gets out the factory than a normal car does in several hundred thousand miles of driving.
If you're referring to the CNW Marketing "report", that was widely debunked.

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Originally Posted by TomO View Post
(Prius having to have the battery pack replaced after roughly 5 years of service under heavy use)
I haven't heard this before. Link?

Also, the battery is covered by an 8 year, 100k - 150k mile warranty (depending on state). source
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:40 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I vote go with the best of both worlds: get either one and convert it to a plug-in biodiesel hybrid
Seriously, I drive a turbodiesel and can't complain. I'm still on pure diesel fuel for the winter, but come spring I'll start experimenting with bio. Veggie is for older diesels, not the new hi-tech gizmos.
One of the downsides of a hybrid are that the batteries are an environmental problem, both producing and recycling, and you'll have to replace them every few years.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:53 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
you'll have to replace them every few years.
Sorry, but this is nonsense. (Did you see the post above yours regarding battery warranty?) Where are you getting your information?

If hybrid packs routinely needed replacing every few years, the vehicles would not be selling at all, instead of going on 10+ years in North America.

EDIT: I'm not defending hybrids over diesel (in fact, I didn't even vote), but it irks me to see flatly incorrect claims about either platform being propagated.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:12 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Agreed Metro. I get a lot of comments from co-workers clinging to their gas guzzlers about how hybrids are crap because you have to pay $15k to replace the batteries after a few years. I have never heard of anyone having to do this. The batteries do not FAIL. They simply lose some efficiency. Then what are you left with? A small efficient vehicle that maybe "only" gets 40 mpg instead of 45. All the Insights and Priuses from the 90s are still on the road, charging right along. Pun intended.

That being said, I think it is unwise to ignore the ecological and energy consumption impacts from mining the raw materials and producing the battery packs and other associated high tech devices necessary to implement a hybrid powertrain into a small car. The energy impact of a vehicle must always be considered over its entire lifetime and there is no doubt in my mind that the production of hybrid batteries has a heavy toll. Some of the newer, more mild hybrids might diminish this impact (such as the new insight). But in my mind if you are ever comparing two vehicles that get similar mileage figures, and one requires a few hundred pounds of heavy metals mined from the earth and precision manufactured with industrial chemicals, this must factor into one's considerations.

As for CNW, their methods are secret and agenda unclear. While their negative bias towards hybrids is well known, it is still interesting for helping to consider the total life cycle energy consumption of relative vehicles. One might note that the VW Jetta diesel in their study places best in its class.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:56 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Sorry, but this is nonsense. (Did you see the post above yours regarding battery warranty?) Where are you getting your information?
Sorry about that It seems you posted while I was still writing. I should have checked after posting, though.

What I had in mind about changing batteries was not about the owner paying for them, but about having to replace or get rid of them in the first place. Warranty or not, all sorts of stuff has to be mined and shipped back and forth around the planet before it finds its way into a car, and then that heavy mini-periodic table will be driven around for thounds of miles in the trunk before it gets recycled. At best, it really will be recycled, and not shipped to India for peasants to take apart with their bare hands. At least the dead weight part is partially compensated by reducing the size of the engine and fuel tank.

On the other hand, a diesel requires filters etc. which bring the FE down. Still, diesel technology, even the fancy TDI, is simpler than a hybrid.

I'm still stubbornly voting for a biodiesel plug-in hybrid :P

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