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Old 12-08-2011, 07:27 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Clarification of “cell design”

As I promised in my last post, here is an image of the canopy opening and “side impact bars” which will keep the frame strong and protect the driver. The bars (one either side) are drawn as lattice in grey, and fill the gap between points A and B when vehicle is in use. Front mountings are big roller bearings and rear “catches” are normal automobile “ant-burst” door locks. This allows driver to get in and out as easily as average sports car, and from either side. I hope that illustrates how it works. I used this design on my first prototype, with gas-strut assisters from a station wagon tailgate and its really easy to use. Its designed to work within a normal room ceiling height and the only drawback that I can see is the “sail area” of the canopy when open on windy days. To counteract the forces that may occur I have used a very wide (1m) stand.

Other points
The crash of first prototype was NOT intentional, just learned two important lessons during first trials.
Also – before going back on the fab bench after photos, I decided to put it on the cornerweight scales. A mildly disappointing result – total weight 127kg (70f, 57r) is heavier than I expected at this stage. I estimate 180kg finished, so this isn’t going to win any drag races.

Project 100 link
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:02 PM   #132 (permalink)
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I designed a stand for a bike on the CR-4 Forum, which had two tubes projecting down and out, ( to whatever width you want) with telescoping tubes inside. When you stop, push a button, till they reach the ground. Release the button locks the down tube which are both on the ground and will hold the bike vertical, no matter what angle the "ground" is. Push the button and retrieve the ground tubes with a cable on a lever, which the button is on. You can make it as wide as necessary. You project looks very good!
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:34 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Wow! nice project dude.
I used to have a pit bike with an engine like that, i had a bore/stroker kit to 140cc, bigger engine head, bigger valves, hi-compression piston, mikuni 26carb, oil cooler, valve breather, and in my final stage i was adding a turbocharger, but i never ended that stage , you can achieve nice performance with that engine tuning the engine and then adding a longer gearbox relation you may build a fast and economical machine.
If you need some advice to tune that engine feel free to contact me.
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Old 12-09-2011, 03:55 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Nice project


Drawing looks great. a bit like ecomobile from Switserland.
Wheels outside look cool ok, the front wheel out is not as bad as the rear wheel. Maybey you could make transparent panels on the side to keep the looks and get better aerodynamic flow.
I'm a friend/college of Allert. I'm also building hypermiler like Allert's
With a 125cc Honda engine.
I drove it original for a while getting 106 Mpg (american gallon) at 45 Mph
Allert is getting 227 Mpg at 62 Mph.
I'm hoping to get the same results allthough I'll build a different fairing.
It will be more like the german Evomoto (see Home ).
Allert met with him last august and they got the same Mpg.
It also has the honda 125cc engine.
these engines have EFI, runs smoother and more economic than carburater.
I think it will be hard to get 70 Mph out your 100cc. that will take a very good fairing.
Allert's bike runs 80 Mph max with 125cc !

Good luck,
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:04 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Visionary, mate. You're in Essex. I'm just down the road in Ware in Herts. I kind of think we ought to meet seeing as I run bikeweb dot com which is THE home of recumbent motorcyclists.

I'd send a private message but apparently I haven't posted enough on Ecomodder to be allowed to. You can always reach me on julian_bond at voidstar.com
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:11 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Even a clear cover over the front wheel could double your mileage, but you have to redesign for crosswind stability as #1. Matt Weaver found that he could tune his bicycle to auto-correct, by moving the CP forward, while Craig Vetter moved the CG forward, also with good results, and a straighter, more predictable track.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:58 PM   #137 (permalink)
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I posted a link to this project on the Feet Forward Yahoo group http : autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/feet_forward/ and it's generated some interest there.

I've found the bodywork on my FF motorbikes by far the most difficult and expensive to do well. I'll be very interested to hear how you do this.

Edit: Bodywork was far more difficult than the mechanical work, and far more expensive.

Last edited by Quasiff; 12-12-2011 at 04:00 AM.. Reason: Unclear wording
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:19 PM   #138 (permalink)
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I'd suggest you consider making your steering link both straight and of a larger diameter. What you show in the above photos looks like it could get a bit flexy during any forceful steering inputs (whether from the pilot end or from the front end going quickly sideways, e.g. hitting a pothole/bump at an angle).

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Old 12-11-2011, 11:41 PM   #139 (permalink)
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FYI here's some 600cc sportbike wheel assembly weights for you to think about. They'll be lighter than the parts you bought.

2009 600cc sportbike shootout, RRW 04/2009

wheels with brake rotors and matching test tires (Bridgestone BT-
003 Racing) but without axles, spacers, cush drives or sprockets:

Honda lightest, 23lbf front, 25 lbf rear
Suzuki, 25/27
Kawasaki 26/27
Yamaha 25/28

So the Honda is 5 lbf total less than the Yamaha.

After you get it runing you might consider lighter wheels. The EX250 Kawasaki wheels are pretty light for a "learner" bike. I was surprised when I weighed them on an EX race project bike. The later ones have 17" tires instead of 16" which makes it easier to find good tires. You might also consider the Suzuki GS500 wheels. Both of those bikes run narrower tires (less drag than the tires for the 600 class 3.5" front/4.5-5.5" rear rims) and there's lots of them around so the parts shouldn't be too expensive. The tires won't necessarily be lighter though, as the modern 600cc radial sport tires are surprising light, especially if compared to a bias ply "commuter" tire.

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Old 12-12-2011, 04:23 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Regarding the jack shaft and dual chain drive, a couple of thoughts.

Chain could be the same size as the Cub uses, not the size that suits the rear wheel for a 600sports bike. However you're accelerating more mass so going smaller than the Cub chain size could be an issue.

Second thought, a single (long) toothed belt or chain with an idler on the back of the tension side (on the jack shaft) might be a simpler and lighter option than a pair of sprockets and 2 chains. However, the sprocket pair gives you more gearing options and allows easy chain alignment for the wide rear wheel so there's a trade off.

To get a second set of gear ratios, there have been dual chain 2 speed "gearboxes" made. Scott had one on a bike in the 1920s and people have made them since then. The jack shaft allows this option more easily because you could have 2 chains to that and a single chain to the back wheel. The dual chains should be chains, ideally, as they are narrower and take smaller diameter sprockets than toothed belts and have less drag.

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