Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Motorcycles / Scooters
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2011, 05:01 PM   #141 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
food for thought

Neat idea, all the best with it, a couple of things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar_(motorcycle)
can you please publish steering geometry front/rear weight split etc
when you are done?
thanks
Stephen

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-12-2011, 05:21 PM   #142 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France - Paris
Posts: 762

la_voiture_de_courses - '03 Renault Megane Estate
OldContinents
90 day: 44.34 mpg (US)

xiao lan - '01 Audi A2
90 day: 38.88 mpg (US)

Brit iron - '92 Mini Mini
90 day: 45.5 mpg (US)

Prius - '09 Toyota PRIUS Lounge
90 day: 47.37 mpg (US)

Beemer - '06 BMW F800 ST
90 day: 53.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 188
Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
brand new properly lubricated chain have less drag but in the lifetime of a usual vehicle, chain is preoperly not that better after all (and it requires maintenance, a lot ...)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 02:16 AM   #143 (permalink)
efficiencyguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 17
Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by renault_megane_dci View Post
brand new properly lubricated chain have less drag but in the lifetime of a usual vehicle, chain is preoperly not that better after all (and it requires maintenance, a lot ...)
If the chain is protected by a chain guard like the original Honda cup 90 it is more energy-efficient than all others (belt, cardan).

Just keep the dirt away.
__________________
Think twice, be nice..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 05:29 PM   #144 (permalink)
Stick your neck out...
 
visionary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex UK
Posts: 135
Thanks: 15
Thanked 67 Times in 37 Posts
Update 011

So most of the frame centre section fabrication is now complete. Just have to strip it down, complete some triangulation, finish welds nicely and paint it. I’ve taken some images of the suspension and drive mechanisms while it’s easy to follow the design, before it all gets too complicated. The stand mechanism and exhaust routing will obscure most of this!



This first image shows the mounting of the spring damper unit. The left mounting is the fixed “body” end, braced into a load bearing plate that doubles as the rear engine mounting. The right “moving” end is mounted in a bearing on the rocker arm, which pivots about the lower bearing. This position is fixed to frame bars and braced by the curved plate (below shock) which also serves as a heat shield. The (far right) bearing, near tyre, is the intersection of the pull-link and the rocker arm. Vertical movement of swing arm is converted into horizontal compression force acting on the spring, which gives a smooth operation throughout the full range of travel. Ride height and damping rate is adjustable straight from the shock body.



This shot (from above) shows the jackshaft and primary and final drive chains. Although this design was unintended, I’m quite pleased with how its turned out. The primary chain has a separate tensioner (not visible) and gearing changes are very simple, but I most like the unused portion of the jackshaft which has other possible uses. I could attach another gear and use an electric motor to assist drive, or even reversing – but that’s a whole new project!



Here is the same view with the chainguard in place. It’s a strong (1.5mm) steel plate which covers the drive chains to prevent injury in case of failure, it braces the open frame top to add stiffness, and acts as a base for the seat to rest on. It will also keep heat and noise outside the driver compartment.




So there it is – quite compact! I have a 500mm seat height, to top of uncompressed seat ( not that its very spongy). That’s just below the “mystical” 20inch seat height mentioned in other FF circles and I can’t wait to see how it drives.

Next part is the exhaust – I’ve planned it all out! I will mount a lambda sensor within a “collector”, which will turn the single pipe into two, with an exit on each side, through a “box” type silencer which will act as an aero guide to help control the wake. This should keep me busy over Christmas, as I was intending to start the “swap-over” with the std C90 bits, but I’m going to keep it in one piece a little longer so that I can do the cooling tests. I did get a fresh MOT test on it, so I can ride this creation all though next year.
__________________
Project 100 link
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...0-a-18216.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 05:46 PM   #145 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 403

Sweetie - '11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
90 day: 39.35 mpg (US)

My Miles - '03 Combo GLS/KLX/Ninja
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)

Sipper' - '04 Kawasaki Ninja 250
90 day: 74.98 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts
Great job so far.
__________________
This ain't a war, anymore than a war between men and maggots. Or, dragons and wolves. Or, men riding dragons, throwing wolves at maggots!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 12:46 AM   #146 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 337
Thanks: 4
Thanked 37 Times in 21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
As far as high-output 125s go, Aprilia will begin selling this FI 125 4-stroke in the U.S. later this year -


What about the Aprilia RS 125? That's 2 stroke, probably won't have as nice fuel economy as the 4 stroke, but more power to achieve that 100mph figure. I havn't looked up specs, but typically 2 stroke has more power per CC.

Actually after searching i found on some sites it was 27hp, or 33 unrestricted. Also noted that its top speed was 100mph. Sure the aerodynamics of your project will be way better, but i'm wondering if the low hp figure I read in the earlier pages will be enough. I still have 10 or so pages to read up on.

Last edited by steffen707; 12-19-2011 at 12:57 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2012, 04:11 AM   #147 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 82
Thanks: 18
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionary View Post
Update 003

So here is a concept sketch for the project. On the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words, it should make it easier for anyone to understand what I am aiming for.



The “sketch” is done in photoshop with actual photos of each of the major components (inc driver) laid over a CAD drawing to ensure scale remains accurate. I have left the body transparent so the internals can be viewed. I will post a plan view and front & rear views when I complete them. The size and approximate mechanical layout are all fixed at this point, but styling issues can be changed in the final bodywork. I would like to hear any comments about the body shape and its probable Cd, I am aiming for less than 0.2.
Since this project as all about aerodynamic performance to achieve the goals, any suggestions would be welcome.
I really think to achieve your goals,you might have to enclose both front and rear wheels,maybe doors for a little ergo,but it is a proto so you can make it perfect as time goes on,and yes,it should turn heads when you have the final design worked out.Check out DP motors for lots of design and engineering tips[same applies to motorcycles]
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to godscountry For This Useful Post:
HHOTDI (02-24-2012)
Old 01-17-2012, 08:02 PM   #148 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 82
Thanks: 18
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionary View Post
Project Overview

The principle project objective is to create a vehicle that has a maximum speed in excess of 100mph, can achieve 100mpg+ at its cruising speed of 70mph, from an engine displacement of 100cc.

EDIT
So here is a concept sketch for the project. On the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words, it should make it easier for anyone to understand what I am aiming for.


I have done enough research to believe that these targets are possible, although they will be difficult to achieve. I will hamper myself further by choosing to run exposed wheels, which is a personal choice, as I don’t like the “dustbin” fairing style. I think it is important to ensure that the vehicle remains “cool” if it’s ever to be widely accepted.

Many years ago I was inspired by Amory Lovins’ Hypercar principle, then quickly realised that one of the biggest drawbacks would be congestion, which is already a major source of waste. Since then I have worked on “single person vehicles” as a part of the solution. I have already produced a full size prototype vehicle with single track and fully enclosed bodywork, which I will call an “internal motorcycle”. This initial vehicle is a pure “proof-of-concept” prototype and has no chance of being acceptable for road-testing on the public highway. Therefore I intend to use “Project 100” as a spin-off, which allows me to complete lots of road testing, without worry about registration and the fear of arrest, much as Craig Vetter does.

I have chosen to start with a Honda C90 “cub” as a donor vehicle, due to its high production numbers, horizontal engine design and low capacity. I will fabricate a new frame that allows recumbent seating and cover it with my prototype bodywork.

I would very much welcome all comments and opinions (positive and negative) as I document the project. This forum contains many wise voices and I am a firm believer in “the wisdom of the crowd”, and how that can provide a better outcome.
Good luck,were all learning,and it's guys like you, that take that first step into building a vehicle,inspire the rest of us to do something good.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2012, 08:07 PM   #149 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 82
Thanks: 18
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionary View Post
Frank – after reading your earlier post re drag calcs, I decided to look at it again.

First the Crr – I read the notes and without any other information I reasoned the low figure on the basis of m/cycles having only two tyres (half the energy consumed in deformation of contact patch) versus 4 on car – so half an average figure.
I didn’t expect to be far from the ball park, but I bow to your superior knowledge.
I have now re-run figures with .018 (middle of your estimate)

Frontal area – just completed a count (by hand) of size. I have a photoshop drawing, which I will post once I tidy it up, but the count came in at 0.673sqm – so actually less than my estimate of 0.7sqm. Again I have re-run the calc with this new input.

Cd – well this is a guess, but at least an educated one! In my initial research I found a figure of 0.17 for the ecomobile and I gave myself some “wriggle room” by using 0.19. The ecomobile is the nearest design to mine, with two exceptions (one positive ,one negative)
It runs enclosed wheels and I intend open, but it has exposed outrigger wheels at the widest part of the body which I think will cause turbulence, whereas my design is very smooth at should keep flow attached for longer.

Anyway, the net result is still only 11.5hp to hit 100mph, which is still attainable, so I’m not put off yet.

By the way, I think you are spot-on about your aerodynamic observations – I expect turbulent flow around the front wheel to quickly re-attach at the body sides, thus minimising the drag penalty. My big problem is the rear! I’m still open to suggestions about how to finish this.
does anyone know the cd number on the Varna body,the worlds fastest enclosed recumbent bicycle at 82 mph.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to godscountry For This Useful Post:
HHOTDI (02-24-2012)
Old 01-17-2012, 08:22 PM   #150 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 82
Thanks: 18
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by theo22 View Post
Hi,

Drawing looks great. a bit like ecomobile from Switserland.
Wheels outside look cool ok, the front wheel out is not as bad as the rear wheel. Maybey you could make transparent panels on the side to keep the looks and get better aerodynamic flow.
I'm a friend/college of Allert. I'm also building hypermiler like Allert's
With a 125cc Honda engine.
I drove it original for a while getting 106 Mpg (american gallon) at 45 Mph
Allert is getting 227 Mpg at 62 Mph.
I'm hoping to get the same results allthough I'll build a different fairing.
It will be more like the german Evomoto (see Home ).
Allert met with him last august and they got the same Mpg.
It also has the honda 125cc engine.
these engines have EFI, runs smoother and more economic than carburater.
I think it will be hard to get 70 Mph out your 100cc. that will take a very good fairing.
Allert's bike runs 80 Mph max with 125cc !

Good luck,
Theo
The worlds fastest bicycle, a fully enclosed recumbent[the Varna]does 82mph.So with a cad designed,low cd, cnc cut body,he may be able to pull it off.I recommend spending on a professionally built body,they look good and work well.Allert built a beautiful body,but I doubt this is the first time he's worked with foam,carbon,fiberglass.Most of us would need some courses offered by some of the kit aircraft builders to achieve his results.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com