Project 100 (custom enclosed Honda C90 targets 100 mph vmax and 100 km/L FE)

[godscountry]

Originally Posted by visionary

Hal - thanks for that EFI link. I've just checked out the site and it's just what I was looking for! The pricing looks reasonable too. If anyone has first-hand experience of the system I would like to get an opinion before purchasing.
My aim was always to upgrade the motor to FI when the initial testing is complete. I know I cannot hit my target 100mph without the 11.5hp that I calculated, and the power hike has to come from an engine rebuild with rebore to 100cc and other mods. However, I want to get the project "on the road" asap, so I will leave the engine standard initially. This means finishing the intake port to mount the std carb, even though I plan to junk it later.
Ref the 125 - this is where I should have started, but its too late now! I would be interested if anyone can tell me if the engine mounting points are interchangeable - that would mean less cutting an welding if I decided to upgrade at a later date. Craig(Vetter) always said he thought the 90 was a bit small, so I'm keeping an open mind until I get it running.

Craig - sometimes you really surprise me! I had imagined a "forward thinker" like yourself would be all in favour of EFI. Carbs may be the choice of a racer, but they have no place in modern vehicle technology. At best they are a blunt instrument which hits the target only by throwing-in fuel "and seeing what sticks".
EFI is actually the "racers choice" introduced in F1 in mid 80's long before govts even understood the potential gains. I doubt if any engineer who has installed a good "fully programmable" engine management system, and completed a calibration with the ease and accuracy available, would ever consider going back to carbs.
Your streamliner would probably benefit from EFI - think of all that foreign oil you are wasting!
I'd love to join you on your Vegas trip (Red Rock Casino Sunday 20th Nov - hope you don't mind the plug) but the bike's a long way from finished and I'm still on the wrong side of the pond. But, I'm gonna make myself a promise - I'll do one of your challenges, once I meet my own!

I think the advantages of EFI are it is tune on the fly.Nascar claims a little bit better fuel economy since losing the the big Holleys.A carb is limited to its settings,the average joe is not going to jet for air density,EFI with all its sensors does that for you.Just turn the key and go.Not to say carbs cant work real well,it's just that EFI works better.

[PaulBlez]

Originally Posted by visionary

On a more positive note, I had a very interesting day yesterday when I went to Mallory Park racetrack for the "Festival Of a Thousand Bikes". Among other luminaries from the FF bike world, I had enjoyable conversations with Paul Blezard (PaulBlez who has posted earlier in this thread), Colin Russell (the driving force behind the monoliner project Mono Liner - Single Track Streamliner) and Andy Tribble (owner of a Peraves Ecomobile).
Andy was nice enough to let me sit in his ecomobile and give me an unbiased opinion of ecomobile ownership, and riding dynamics - very enlightening!
.

I have posted a pic of Visionary with Andy Tribble & his Eco at Mallory here:
Tribs Meets 'Visionary' | FF Web
There are several other photos of this and previous 'FoTBs', thousands of other photos of assorted FFs on bikeweb.com and hundreds of Ecomobiles and Monotracers. There are also some photos of the NSU 'Flying Hammocks' here: Baumm NSU | FF Web
PNB

[Michael Moore]

More NSU photos are in this folder on my website:

Index of /graphics/NSU

cheers,
Michael

[Ironside]

Hi Visionary, I've recently discovered your project via a link from the FF forum. May I congratulate you on the work already done. I run a Honda 90 based FF, which was built around 4 years ago, is used virtually every day and has covered several thousand miles. I would be happy to share my experiences with you.
I would like to make one suggestion, that you take a look at C90Club.co.uk. There are a number of 'Gurus' on this site who have a wealth of information, including engine tuning, and the fitting of alternative 4 speed motors (which I suspect is what you will eventually do).

[visionary]

Originally Posted by Ironside

Hi Visionary, I've recently discovered your project via a link from the FF forum. May I congratulate you on the work already done. I run a Honda 90 based FF, which was built around 4 years ago, is used virtually every day and has covered several thousand miles. I would be happy to share my experiences with you.

Thanks ironside, please feel free to share your experiences with us all. I'm sure that followers of this thread would enjoy another perspective on the subject.
Presently, only the original C90 motor(and transmission) is left, oh and the rear lamp and badge, everything else is adapted or custom fabricated - so it would be wrong of me to claim a close affinity with C90 owners. But last year I did make a trip to Copdock Bike Show where I met "aliengravy" and others from the C90 forum - nice people!

[Frank Lee]

Ironside: I need pics!

[visionary]

Note to self : It’s a blog!

In recent weeks I seem to have gone “off mission” by failing to post up details of my work.
As I get closer to a finished vehicle I have become too “precious” about what I present. I have been working hard on the vehicle but have “censored” my own postings because I have felt concerned about posting sub-standard work or alterations.
Then I have to remind myself, that’s what its all about – the good and the bad, “a trail of breadcrumbs” that anyone can follow, and learn from my mistakes to save your own time/money. Its not a polished PR piece, or a BS company profile, just down-to-earth storytelling – lets hope I get a happy ending!
So here is an entire update (017) that I was going to leave out.

[visionary]

Update 017

During the past few months I have been working on the upper cabin area. My original concept sketches have always been based upon the idea of a fully enclosed cockpit. In fact I have even procured a glider canopy to act as my upper bodywork. It fits the vehicle dimensions very well and when seated within it, there is a quite unique experience, which will make the finished vehicle even more “special”. However, the extra work (not to mention expense) of making this type of canopy comply with UK road regulations, means that I have to consider other options.
My vehicle will require as MSVA (Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval) test carried out by govt inspectors at an approved testing station. Acting upon advice from a ministry tester, I have decided to present the vehicle for test as an open-cockpit design. This avoids the complex testing requirements, and I can revert to a closed canopy at a later date when my registration has been approved. Note: I have abandoned my plans to circumvent the laws by claiming it is just a modified C90, on the advice of friends and viewing Allert Jacobs on youtube –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0NRW7_B2Ug

So here is a picture of the temporary “open cockpit” canopy, which I am making by the same method as my rear hatch (outlined in Updates 015 and 016). I have tried to copy the style of an open cockpit formula race-car, ie long flat body extending down to the nose, small deflector screen close to the upper torso. I fear that its looking a bit too “Star Wars” but hey, what can you do?



The canopy (either style, enclosed or open cockpit) raises vertically, hinged at the nose. Lifted by the side bars shown in this shot. The side bars are steel box-section fabrications which are designed to transfer loads from the front steering/suspension into the upper body section, thus completing the “monocoque” structure when closed. When open, they allow easy access to the interior. They assist in driver protection as both “side impact bars” and load deflectors in the event of frontal impacts. They are strong and rigidly mounted on substantial bearings, but have come out a little heavier than I intended, so a re-weigh is on the cards.



I have engineered a simple electric control, made from a power window motor, working against the twin gas-strut actuators, which can be seen in the image. It works great with the canopy off, but I fear it lacks the power to lift itself and the completed canopy, so I’m planning to switch to an alternative mechanism.
Next update should contain a youtube link to the canopy in operation – still images do not do it justice, it’s really very cool!

[renault_megane_dci]

Allert's Youtube video should be in his thread too (if it's not already)

[godscountry]

when I look back at these early streamliners,I can't help but wonder what happened.Motorcycles are fast for one reason only,power to weight,not because their aerodynamic.Just about every well designed motorcycle with a aerodynamic body,is not only faster,but generally goes twice the distance on the same fuel or stored electrical energy.We can build a streamlined motorcycle that is comfortable,uses a door for entry,is very safe and as fun as a standard motorcycle.Both the Monotracer and BMW's Simple concept 3 wheeled tilter both have large roomy cabin's and drag cd[coefficient of drag]numbers of about 0.016 or about.Enclosed 2 wheeler's need a way to hold themselves up when stopping,your feet through openings,gyros or training wheels,sometimes referred to as out rigger;s.None are fool proof.I like the idea of a narrow tilter using weight shift,steering controls tilt not the steering like Philip James of Australia's design.I don't know much about the engineering but it looks interesting.I just hope manufactures start to see the writing on the wall,and start to rethink aerodynamics and personal vehicles.Maybe a narrow,motorcycle like 4 wheeler that tilts or a seamless way to hold up a enclosed 2 wheeler at a stop,without compromising the motorcycles handling and ride qualities.Its more or less the same old thing,one person commuting in 2 ton monster,a lone motorcyclist ,on a large bike the gets 45 mpg.We could have a comfortable and safe ride with 100 plus mpg usa,2 liters per 100Km if only.I truly believe the first one that get's right will be the next Henry Ford of vehicle innovation.







we need choices