Project "Save the Flea!" Winter beater: 2007 Civic 1.8L, 5-speed

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by xavi

On flat roads, I DWL, but didn't find the best LOD acceleration and best shift point...

I like a smooth, quiet technique, so I tend to accelerate at pretty light loads and shift very early, like 1.5k RPM in city driving. I realize it's not the most efficient engine operation, but I think acceleration style is just about the least important thing to focus on (except when you're trying to pulse & glide). I will accelerate faster on an open road.

It's all the other stuff that counts the most: minimizing brake use, killing the engine and coasting in N where appropriate, etc.

Considering the pumping loses reduction, and eco cam operation of our engine, you think is best to pull fast/high load to get to cruising speed sooner, or to pull with low load? shifting at 2k? 2.5k rpms?

I'm not convinced the savings of the eco profile are worth the penalty of fast acceleration. It's certainly not a ~33%% gain like lean burn in a gen. 1 Insight. Also, once in 3rd gear, I can accelerate on the eco profile.

I may try again to get test data with the eco profile on/off, but because of the cruise control problem, I really need another set of eyes & fingers in the car to do it right (safely).

[awcook]

In my Civic, I have noticed a little bit about the eco-profile, as well as DFCO in the automatic. I do not own a gauge, so I just use the seat of my pants, but I still think that my tests can be somewhat reliable.

First, I can tell when the eco-profile turns off, it is most notable going up hills while trying to maintain a steady speed. In order to keep the profile on, you need to lower the engine load quite a bit, thus lowering your speed a lot (there is a big hill that I drive on and typically going down the hill I get up to 60 MPH then on the uphill I slow down to 45 MPH).

Second, I notice the eco-cam turning off once you hit 85 MPH in the auto. This is good to know so that on large hills on the freeway you can make sure not to speed up to 85.

Third, DFCO is really easy to notice using the seat of your pants. I DFCO a lot on the freeways because of traffic (and to keep myself safe when drafting behind a truck). The second I put my foot back on the gas pedal, DFCO stops and my head usually gets thrown back. The passengers in the car don't usually notice because none of them care about MPG's and never bothered to learn about engine braking and other hypermiling techniques.

Take these tests with a grain of salt. I don't have the proper tools to do proper tests, but this is just what I have noticed to get higher MPG. These tests are also done in the automatic transmission, which is much different than the manual transmission.

Another observation that is 100% true is that when the engine is cold the car coasts a lot farther with an automatic transmission, which is something that I actually like about the cold weather, that way I don't put wear on my transmission by shifting to neutral.

[xavi]

Hi Awcook,

Here in Europe this Civic comes with an automated gearbox call i-shift. This can be used in auto mode that will do gear changes according to drive, If we floor it it will push up the rpm, if you are light on throttle it will change sooner, also it has the sequential mode where you change up or down in gears with the stick. (doesn't have clutch pedal, it has a clutch but is eletrically activated)...

Your gearbox is different yes?
Is like a CVT gearbox?

Meaning, if you are easy on the gas (economic driving) wich rpm does it revs/shifts?

On my 6 MT Civic's Manual it reccomends the next shift speeds to have a smoother and economic drive:
1->2 = 15 km/h = 9 mp/h (+-1800 rpms)
2->3 = 35 km/h = 22 mp/h (+-2200 rpms)
3->4 = 50 km/h = 31 mp/h (+-2400 rpms)
4->5 = 75 km/h = 47 mp/h (+-2500 rpms)
5->6 = 100 km/h = 62 mp/h (+-2800 rpms)

That's a little high rpms I guess, but probably for the best fuel eficiency...?!

[awcook]

I think that our Civics have different gearboxes. Mine is not like a CVT gearbox, and does not have sequential mode (not on the 2010 LX at least) but it does have D3, 2 and 1.

When I am super light on the gas pedal I can get it to shift at 1800 RPMs and it will stay below 1800 RPM until about 50 MPH. I know that the automatic has taller gearing than the manual (at 70 I am only at about 2100 RPM where I think Metro said he was at 3000 RPM at 70).
Here it is through all of the gears in super lightfoot mode:
1->2 = 7 MPH = 1600 RPM
2->3 = 17 MPH = 1800 RPM
3->4 = 27 MPH = 1900 RPM
4->5 = 37 MPH = 1800 RPM

If I wasn't light on the gas pedal (as in I drive like there are only 2 modes for driving, gas and brake) then it will usually shift around 3000-3500 RPM.
Here is the shift points for normal person driving:
1->2 = 12 MPH = 2000 RPM
2->3 = 25 MPH = 3000 RPM
3->4 = 35 MPH = 3000 RPM
4->5 = 60 MPH = 3500 RPM

Flooring it, the RPMs go all the way up to redline
1->2 = 20 MPH = 6800 RPM + wheelspin
2->3 = 55 MPH = 6800 RPM + you can smell the exhaust
3->4 = 72 MPH = 6800 RPM + exhaust smell
4->5 = 100+MPH (never done this) = 6800 RPM + exhaust smell
5 = 128-129 MPH according to when the speed limiter kicks in, but the transmission can probably go up to 135 and possibly higher if wind resistance wasn't an issue

I'm not sure which way to drive is the best way to drive yet, since I don't have the proper instrumentation, but I have noticed from tank to tank that my MPG's are higher if I have a really light foot.

[xavi]

that exhaust smell you talk, that happens to me too...
I think that smell is the result of the hot exhaust gases burning the stuff that comes down from the egr pipe which is connected just below the catalytic converter...
with eco driving it doesn't get hot enough, but when pulling the revs to the top give that extra temperature...
Because this smell only happens when we make some miles without high revs...
If we rev it hard 2 or 3 pulls the smell stops, so no more stuff to burn...
But this is me guessing... Many R18 owners feel the same smell, only drivers that don't, are the ones with more sporty driving..

[xavi]

Originally Posted by awcook

Here it is through all of the gears in super lightfoot mode:
1->2 = 7 MPH = 1600 RPM
2->3 = 17 MPH = 1800 RPM
3->4 = 27 MPH = 1900 RPM
4->5 = 37 MPH = 1800 RPM

I'm not sure which way to drive is the best way to drive yet, since I don't have the proper instrumentation, but I have noticed from tank to tank that my MPG's are higher if I have a really light foot.

This is interesting info... but still you have taller gears, so not so slow...

about the instrumentation, you have the Ultragauge there at about 60$, here in Europe it's to expensive to import it, so I bought a SGII, but in the States I would have bought the Ultragauge.
UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center

[awcook]

The thing that I have noticed about my gearing is that I accelerate about the same vs when I drive like a normal person (I use the people that are next to me at a stoplight when we it turns green to make sure I am not going too slow).

I'm going to get the Ultragauge for Christmas, so I will report my findings whenever I get it fully calibrated (hopefully by January).

I don't go through that much gas, so I will only go through the rest of this tank and then a little more before I can actually see how I am doing.

What I can tell you, though, is that by using a lighter foot, I got instant results. The tank before I started hypermiling I got 24-26 MPG in the Civic, which is just terrible.

[MetroMPG]

Awcook: that's due to the fact that your Civic's auto transmission is a conventional torque converter model. When you accelerate hard with that type, you suffer much higher efficiency losses until you ease back on the accelerator so the torque converter locks up (at which time it's essentially as efficient as a manual of the same gearing).

[MetroMPG]

I'm having fun with this car... on the highway. It's capable of great economy at moderate cruising speeds. In town, not so much!

And it's SO nice to drive!

I did a ~160 km / 100 mile highway drive today in cool but relatively calm conditions (just above freezing). Terrain was a mix of relatively flat roads along the river (on cruise control... lazy!), with occasional hills (good for pulsing up & gliding down). ~15% city, 85% quiet rural highway.

I will admit I set the cruise control at a low speed on the flats when there was nobody behind me: 70-75 km/h (47 mph). But during P&G I aimed for higher peaks (up to ~85 km/h / 53 mph).

First taste of high speed P&G

P&G'ing this car was an eye-opening experience! It's actually the first time I've really done any high speed P&G.

The Firefly/Metro is too light, low powered and high geared for it to work (takes too long to pulse, and the light weight makes for glides that are too short).

But this porker of a Civic loves to coast! A bunch of aero mods and pumped up tires sure help.

50 mpg at 50 mph average speed seems quite doable with P&G, maybe even engine-on P&G.

Next fill-up soon

There's 931 km / 579 miles on this tank, and the low fuel light just came on today (down to 1 bar left on the gas gauge). The ScanGauge says this tank is sitting at 48 mpg US. We'll see how accurate the 10% fuel offset is.

[awcook]

I figured that it was due to the torque converter. The automatic does have efficiency losses, but I don't mind them, just gives more motivation to work harder on getting better MPGs

Wow, that's great Metro. I am planning a 180 Mile Round-Trip for next Friday and I am hoping to get into 50+ MPG for the trip and over 40 for the whole tank. Should be fairly easy, as long as I don't use Cruise Control and watch myself on the hills.

I really like coasting in the Civic. When I first started reading on this site I actually did some P&G with the car in Neutral (still not sure how this will affect the transmission, so I avoid it now) and it easily could do over a mile of 70MPH-55MPH with a short pulse back up to 70, but that was going downhill with no mods.