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Old 12-29-2018, 09:47 AM   #511 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopStix View Post
Streamlined 1938 Reo Tractor and Curtiss Aerocar

Not really aero by todays standards....

I’d dispute that.

Granted, that’s a one-off completely custom vehicle. Let’s give it disc brakes and fully independent suspension. And a drivetrain that will allow it to meet the mark on a tow combination: 0-60/mph in from 20 to 30-seconds. An auto transmission. 6, 8 or 10?

I’d bet that Cummins crate motor 2.8L V6 would fit the bill. Turbocharged diesel. As I’d also bet that rig doesn’t weigh much. How much fresh water and propane it carries is a determinant.

By determinant I mean number of nights aboard without re-supply. And let’s posit a temp range of from 50-80F (why do we build for mobility? Chase shirt sleeve weather).

Fuel capacity is right in there with other supplies aboard. I’d figure three nights as a good minimum. Thus 30-gls fuel as complement. 80% range would be 500-miles or better. 250-miles out and then back the same. A geared top speed of maybe 63-65/mph.

But that’s on today’s Interstate. 21-mpg (which i believe low). A 400-mile range on US & State highways where terrain wasn’t punishing.

As to “aero” with an RV: it’s all about crosswinds. Everything about that rig is ideal in that regard.

To call it aero and thus impute high mpg, is correct. But high mpg is relative and also unimportant. To understand why aero matters in an RV (crosswind handling) is to understand that total annual miles is low.

This rig was built to lower HP demand. The engines of the day were so low in compression that hill-climbing was arduous. 12-15/mph wouldn’t be uncommon. A truck (wrecker) might be chained to the front to make the tough ones. This was so right into the 1970s with a motorhome trying to get over a Colorado pass. Recommend you look up HP loss according to altitude. Fuel injection is decent (1985) and turbo reliability in sustained demand (high HP, as with the Cummins) is really circa 1995.

A pair of boxy vehicles wouldn’t likely ever cruise 35-mph in the era. And be handicapped by any grade (where wind gusts aren’t to be tempted).

A saying of aircraft designers right thru the 1950s was, “If it looks right, it probably is” (test confirmation). Will this vehicle stay upright? (Is the first test). Can it cruise at 50-mph plus? I’d imagine it did both. The giveaway and refutation to the objection is GROUND CLEARANCE. Look.

Raising cruise MPG with our 2018 drivetrain (and brakes: that’s key) is only a bonus.

What hurts today’s trailers is that the majority aren’t configured for use by a family vehicle (a Chrysler or Honda minivan). But when it is (Airstream), then highway mpg at 63-mph isn’t really a concern. 16+ certainly with a 23’.

A pair of motivated & skilled drivers over the same trip (hours apart) would show that custom with 2018 drivetrain well ahead of its off the shelf modern equivalent.

Is it aero by today’s standards (which are no better than 1926)? It most certainly is.

A failure in understanding on this forum and on the RV forums is that an empty vehicle doesn’t exist. MPG with driver-only is meaningless. Load vehicle to 80% of payload maximum and then see what is “true” mpg. And do it without cease at least 13-weeks (a full calendar quarter).

Vehicle specification drives all else.

“My XYZ gets 50-mpg!!”

No, it doesn’t.

Moving only yourself and 20-lbs of gear isn’t any test at all. Those are “ferry miles”.

The driving skill curve is arduous (emotional) and not in tune with today’s “adults” (who aren’t, in main) to learn how to use every single HP to best effect. Being slower than all other traffic is a given. How best to glide along smoothly isn’t easy. Not evade safety, but to maximize that practice (separation distance).

A solo vehicle loaded according to its design is the MPG test.

And AVERAGE MPH is the determinant of aero viability. The annual number.

So, having circled back around on “what is aero” THAT is determined by function. A city commuter has little need. All trips are short (under three hours) and UTILITY ranks higher (ease of ingress/egress for passengers, etc).

Relatively, a box versus an egg. A 27-mph annual average box isn’t much different than its egg equivalent. But it’s a whole lot easier to live with every persons age and physical condition. (If one posits, “well, it’s only me” go away. When you’re down to one close living relative as am I , then that MAY apply).

When the spec is for that which will see 35-mph + annual AVERAGE mpg, now “aero” has become predominant.

Is it aero? What’s the spec? (must first be answered).

.

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Last edited by slowmover; 12-29-2018 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:28 PM   #512 (permalink)
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Quote:
>>Not really aero by todays standards....
I’d dispute that.
A job for Adversarial Generative AI. Put modern detailing on that overall form.

You know those cherry-pickers you see on utility trucks? It used to take the whole [electric] truck:



https://waterandpower.org/museum/Ear...eetlights.html
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:33 AM   #513 (permalink)
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:26 PM   #514 (permalink)
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:21 PM   #515 (permalink)
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:12 PM   #516 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:31 AM   #517 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopStix View Post
RE: Custom Caddy/Vette Image.......
You know what?

That rear roof lip edge is a clean release point for the air moving over the top of the car. And minus the front grille is this all that bad aerodynamically speaking?

All that said, this design is a lavish and inefficient way to transport two individuals.

Very cool in my book though.

I like cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's ambulance camper too, and at least it's more aero-freindly than the F-350 8-foot wide box posted in the forum last month.

Certainly could use some sort of tail-cone or rear cavity box baffles though.

Gotta cover that luggage rack, bad place for it aero-wise but functional.
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:47 AM   #518 (permalink)
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I'm guessing this is to prevent critters form jumping up and nesting in the car and crewing up wiring in the process. However I have to imagine there is a small drag penalty.


MORE random pics...... - Page 4685 - Pelican Parts Forums


On a second look, it does not appear to extend the whole length of the under-body.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:23 AM   #519 (permalink)
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With a short search, I couldn't find any mention of the un-aerodynamic Dodge Caliber, sold most often with Nissan CVT.
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/p...aphy/596311672
Worked hard to average 31MPG with E10 fuel. Was able to average 33MPG, with a highest ever 37MPG, using E0 fuel. Was excellent in stop&go traffic AND ascending variable slope mountain passes. I traded the Caliber for a slightly less weighted & powered 2013 6sp. automatic Hyundai Elantra (roomier), which averaged 39MPG with E0 with a high of 45MPG. The Elantra, with very slightly smaller gas tank, once gave 500 miles, whereas the Caliber max distance was 430-440 miles. We got a 2016 6sp. manual tranny Elantra (same color, too), that averages the same or better than the auto. Lots of versatility with both the automatic & manual trannies, & no trips to the repair or replacement shops like DC, CVT, 9 & 10 speed trannies.

Last edited by litesong; 01-23-2019 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:58 AM   #520 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litesong View Post
Dodge Caliber..... Hyundai Elantra
What makes you convinced the mpg differences you saw between a Cross-Over and a Sedan were exclusively the results of aerodynamics?

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/dodge/caliber/2008/


https://www.mikeerdmannissan.com/use...DH4AE8DH269531


Dodge Caliber: crossover-like compact cars, 2007-2012
https://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/caliber.html
Quote:
Drag Coefficient 0.375 (original Neon: 0.34)
2013 Hyundai Elantra: You’ve come a long way, baby
https://www.mtdemocrat.com/roadbeat/...long-way-baby/
Quote:
The window lines are well done, making the Elantra look low, long and sleek. Coefficient of drag is a very wind cheating 0.28.
The Elantra looks more aerodynamic than the Neon based Caliber, and the numbers bear this out. In addition, the Caliber has higher drag than the Neon of which it is based on.

I'd be more inclined to declare the Dodge Caliber "unaerodynamic" if it's numbers were appreciably higher than it's contemporary competition or even compared to the Neon. Comparing it to the Elantra is a bit of a stretch, but I can see the point if one were promoting cars over cross-overs.

To my eyes without putting the Caliber to the aero-template, good roof-line, too high of ground clearance, and wheels flares are drag queens. I like the rear spoiler for clean air detachment though.

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1977 Porsche 911s Targa
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Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
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