Range anxiety is overrated

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck

Being fairly new to this forum, I am going to make some interesting observations about a lot of the participants.

I care about the environment and don't like wasting money or resources. I would buy an EV if the price was reasonable and it could perform adequately on most of my driving requirements. I refuse to spend nearly $200K on a tesla that has dubious reliability (Google tesla milling...) or $40K+ on a Leaf that will not even allow me to do my weekly shopping.

Simon

If you lived in the us price would be a non issue.

Next a Volt will perform most all of your driving electrically
And run as a hybrid when you need to drive more than 40-50 miles

GM in my mind has fully addressed the nanny issue of I can only own one car and electric range is a problem.

[LittleBlackDuck]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

If you lived in the us price would be a non issue.

Next a Volt will perform most all of your driving electrically
And run as a hybrid when you need to drive more than 40-50 miles

GM in my mind has fully addressed the nanny issue of I can only own one car and electric range is a problem.

True, but the Land of Oz has its benefits too

The Volt is what I see the Toyota / Lexus hybrids migrating towards in the near future. Toyota is known for its conservatism, and their approach to batteries in the hybrids reflects this. I am extremely happy with my two Lexus hybrids but would kill for extended battery range. This is why I have bought them both second hand and am waiting eagerly for newer models with larger Li-ion batteries. That said, I still feel that they offer the average driver the best compromise between range, economy and overall driveability/performance. The RX450h goes like a rocket but uses far less fuel than our previous RX350. My only frustration is that Toyota have harvested most of the low hanging fruit with regard to economy improvements, but this is great from the perspective of the average Joe.

Simon

[cowmeat]

I've been thinking of getting a Volt myself for the four doors it has, but it's going to be real hard to walk away from the 700 mile sub-ten gallon tanks the Insight gives me!

To a lot of people here on Ecomodder it might be better stated that "Range anxiety is a Key Factor" or "Range Anxiety is Understated"

[Hersbird]

I don't know if it's a conspiracy or not but Ford on the new Focus EV says it's a 23kWh battery. On any Ford parts site I look that up, they want Just under $20,000 for just the battery. Not the cooler, not the charger, just the battery. $869 per kWh. So Yes it is the battery cost, but is $869 per kWh a fair price in the modern battery market or a gouge on Ford's part knowing the customer gets a $7500 or more tax credit? Supposedly Tesla will be selling those 7 kWh packs for $3000, but maybe that's based on government money going directly to them.

Sorry, It is not really on topic of range anxiety, but range anxiety is related to how much battery they put in an EV although until they get to about a 600 mile range people will have some issue with it. After driving 600 miles anybody in their right mind wants to stop for at least 4 hours.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

So Yes it is the battery cost, but is $869 per kWh a fair price in the modern battery market or a gouge on Ford's part knowing the customer gets a $7500 or more tax credit?

Isn't the price for anything as an OEM replacement part much higher than the actual cost? And AFAIK nobody gets a tax credit for purchasing a replacement battery - though of course almost any replacement should come under warranty, so the listed price is purely notional. I'd even suspect it's much higher than cost to keep people from buying one to use in their EV conversions :-)

If you do some searching on current battery prices, you find upwards of $200/KWh, so a reasonably sized battery is going to run upwards of $20K.

As far as 'fair' prices, the only way to determine a fair price is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. I don't think anyone is forcing people to buy EVs at their current prices, so those prices are fair, by definition.

Originally Posted by cowmeat

I've been thinking of getting a Volt myself for the four doors it has, but it's going to be real hard to walk away from the 700 mile sub-ten gallon tanks the Insight gives me!

Yeah, and why would I spend a bunch of money to replace a car that's still perfectly functional (and has 2 seats instead of 4!) with something that offers only marginal improvement in mpg?

[cowmeat]

Yeah, and why would I spend a bunch of money to replace a car that's still perfectly functional (and has 2 seats instead of 4!) with something that offers only marginal improvement in mpg?

Lol, I have a pretty valid reason - couple of grandkids that I can't seem to fit in the Insight's trunk since I have the grid charger, discharger, battery tender and jack stand back there already

*note, the model grandkids are not mine, you get the idea

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck

Ever heard of the saying "If you hear hoofbeats, don't think of zebras"?

+1, but there's a big difference between "I regularly drive distances that exceed that car's range" and anxiety about the fact that range isn't unlimited. One is practical thinking and one is so stupid that it doesn't even count as a first world problem.

If you live in a region where distances between things are vast, it's not anxiety, it's just that you can do math. If you live where things are close together (like most of the new car market) and you have anxiety over the fact that somewhere you have a relative that you might sometime like to visit and that person lives far from a city, and that keeps you from considering and EV, it means you're a Murrican.

New car sales techniques aren't a conspiracy, but their goal is profit. They make money by making EVs seem like a luxury product and make even more money selling full size pickups to people who may someday know someone who needs to haul something.

[NeilBlanchard]

Another big cost factor is regular maintenance. Manufacturers know they will make very little or NOTHING after they sell / lease an EV.

We know that the replacement 24kWh battery pack for the Nissan Leaf costs ~$5,500 (with a $1,000 credit for the old battery). And the cost 8-10 years in the future - or more - will be much less.

Back on topic: our leases are a MUCH bigger limit on the range than the battery, in our two ~24kWh EV's.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

+1, but there's a big difference between "I regularly drive distances that exceed that car's range" and anxiety about the fact that range isn't unlimited. One is practical thinking and one is so stupid that it doesn't even count as a first world problem.

But how many people interpret "range anxiety" as not having unlimited range? Certainly I don't: it's simply that the halfway affordable EVs don't have the range (especially with a reasonable reserve margin) to make many of the trips I make.

Same reason I'd check my fuel gauge if I saw this sign: http://65.media.tumblr.com/97b2ce214...7sho1_1280.jpg

[Fat Charlie]

And that's where range anxiety has more to do with price than fuel- I can't lease a car because I do 25k miles a year and my wife does a similar amount. Since we actually use them, buying them outright is our best move. And I could get away with one of our cars being an EV with a 100 mile range while a 200 mile range would be gravy.

But a brand new Fit was only $15k, so which one was the right buy? Not an electric.