Range anxiety is overrated

[Xist]

We will have 200 mile electric range in two months?

How many of us purchase new cars?

[LittleBlackDuck]

There are lots of people that have commented in this thread that agree that range anxiety exists and is a barrier to EV uptake. Notwithstanding this, there are ongoing developments that are increasing the practicality of the EV, including faster charging and extended range. From what I see, there are a number of use cases that are suited to EV purchase, but price and range will be barriers into the foreseeable future.

This thread exemplifies how I view the mindset of a large number of forum members in that their opinion trumps everything that others say or think. I feel that sometimes we need to "agree to disagree" and accept that our views are not shared by others.

Simon

[cowmeat]

I got over my EV range anxiety by going with a used Chevy Volt. I was already a Hybrid owner, and looking to drop my gas usage to zero, but I was pretty timid about jumping into a full EV.

After researching many cars, I chose the Volt because it fits my personal daily driving circumstances perfectly (and the price was right): I plug it in at night and on my daily commute of 38 miles I use no gas at all, but if I decided to drive it to the Keys that's not a problem! It gets so-so gas mileage when using the ICE to power it, but those times will be few and far between

[LittleBlackDuck]

Originally Posted by cowmeat

I got over my EV range anxiety by going with a used Chevy Volt. I was already a Hybrid owner, and looking to drop my gas usage to zero, but I was pretty timid about jumping into a full EV.

After researching many cars, I chose the Volt because it fits my personal daily driving circumstances perfectly (and the price was right): I plug it in at night and on my daily commute of 38 miles I use no gas at all, but if I decided to drive it to the Keys that's not a problem! It gets so-so gas mileage when using the ICE to power it, but those times will be few and far between

Agreed. You are lucky that longer range hybrids are becoming more affordable in the USA. Downunder is way behind in that area - there are only a couple of hybrids outside the Toyota / Lexus range that are available, and most of them are mediocre to say the least. There are a few Honda Civic hybrids too, but nothing affordable in the EV or PHEV space (BMW etc) or worth driving (Mitsubishi Outlander). The Holden Volt is $60k+ which makes it unattractive.

My use case includes a daily commute of 15km each way plus regular drives ranging from 75km to 350km if I take into account charging opportunities, and this pretty much rules out most of the options. I regard the Toyota / Lexus hybrids as having the best overall efficiency until a longer range hybrid or EV becomes available.

Simon

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

. We may get it in a few months (if GM has been honest with us), but that doesn't apply when we're discussing things we can go out and buy today.

So it's a new product from GM?

[MobilOne]

Xist,

The 1812 Overture for one.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Which is exactly what I do drive (mostly), and have done since IIRC 2003. While I haven't seen any detailed analysis, I'm fairly sure that most of the current crop of EVs actually use more energy to get from A to B than the Insight does. (And that's even ignoring the use of 'Ludicrous Mode'.)

Your Insight does not get better mileage than any EV on the market. The least efficient EV on the market is the Mercedes B-Class that gets 84 mpge combined. The most efficient is the BMW I3 at 124 mpge. No, that does not include generation just as your mpg does not include the energy required to produce gasoline and transport it to a gas station near you.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Sure, because you are talking about multiple people sharing cars/vehicles, which clouds the essentials of their use. In your married couple example, you'd need two EVs for daily commuting, plus one vehicle for longer trips, so there's 1/2 an additional vehicle & costs per person.

The logical and economical solution would be for one person to drive and EV and the other a fuel efficient ICE car. That is what my wife and I do. I have a Spark EV, she has a Prius. If we need to drive a long distance we drive the Prius. My car takes me to work every day and takes us around town.

If we were buying an ICE car today it would likely be a Prius Prime for $23,000. It goes 22 miles in EV mode which would cover my wife's commute and still gets 50 mpg on the highway.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck

There are lots of people that have commented in this thread that agree that range anxiety exists and is a barrier to EV uptake. Notwithstanding this, there are ongoing developments that are increasing the practicality of the EV, including faster charging and extended range. From what I see, there are a number of use cases that are suited to EV purchase, but price and range will be barriers into the foreseeable future.

I leased my 2016 Spark EV for $100 a month. $0 down, 10K miles per years, 39 months. I could have purchased it for $10,600 but EV technology is changing so fast I went for the lease.

I can't think of a cheaper way to drive a car. My 03 Jetta TDI that I bought new and kept for 10 years cost $185 per month just for the purchase and the 05 Prius I purchased used and kept for 10 years cost $187 per month.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by JSH

I leased my 2016 Spark EV for $100 a month. $0 down, 10K miles per years, 39 months. I could have purchased it for $10,600 but EV technology is changing so fast I went for the lease.

I can't think of a cheaper way to drive a car. My 03 Jetta TDI that I bought new and kept for 10 years cost $185 per month just for the purchase and the 05 Prius I purchased used and kept for 10 years cost $187 per month.

Maybe a new car but there are 1000 ways to spend less then $100 a month on a car and all of it's trimmings. Just the fact that you also must pay for full coverage insurance on that lease is killing your cost per mile, a 2016 costs a bunch more to liscense as well. 3 years ago I paid $3000 for a Forrester. I have put $600 into it. So there I have $100 a month. Liscense plates cost $90 one time and they are good forever. Insurance costs $17/month. Even if I drove 10,000 miles a year gas would be under $80/month. The kicker is, the car would sell for at least $3000 tomorrow. If I took a couple weeks I could get $3500 or more. Plus my car works in Montana in a foot of unplowed snow or goes 100s of miles up unto the mountains and Forrest. Don't get me wrong, I want a Arcimoto for around town but seldom is a new car going to be the lowest cost choice out there. I suppose if you were wise enough to buy a 1971 Hemi Cuda convertible you would be doing pretty good in cents per mile with a 5 million dollar current value.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Maybe a new car but there are 1000 ways to spend less then $100 a month on a car and all of it's trimmings. Just the fact that you also must pay for full coverage insurance on that lease is killing your cost per mile, a 2016 costs a bunch more to liscense as well. 3 years ago I paid $3000 for a Forrester. I have put $600 into it. So there I have $100 a month. Liscense plates cost $90 one time and they are good forever. Insurance costs $17/month. Even if I drove 10,000 miles a year gas would be under $80/month. The kicker is, the car would sell for at least $3000 tomorrow. If I took a couple weeks I could get $3500 or more. Plus my car works in Montana in a foot of unplowed snow or goes 100s of miles up unto the mountains and Forrest. Don't get me wrong, I want a Arcimoto for around town but seldom is a new car going to be the lowest cost choice out there. I suppose if you were wise enough to buy a 1971 Hemi Cuda convertible you would be doing pretty good in cents per mile with a 5 million dollar current value.

Been there done that. In my earlier years I was driving $300, $500, $1000 beaters. Yes it was cheap and I can do the work myself to keep them running but something always needed to be fixed.

I have a 2003 Chevy Astro that I bought two years ago and converted to a campervan. It was $4300 with 60K miles at purchase. I've spent $505.96 and many hours getting the van to pass inspection (Evap emission problem that turned out to be the pressure sensor on top of the tank. It ran fine when I purchased it but the check engine light came on the drive home. I should have brought my scanner). The light came back on again Sunday...

To date I have replaced:

• Radiator hoses
• Coolant
• Thermostat
• Rear calipers and lines
• Evap purge Valve Solenoid
• Evap Vent Valve Solenoid
• Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor
• Mass Airflow Sensor
• Battery

Insurance: Insurance on my 05 Prius was $455.79 per year. Insurance on the 2016 Spark is $551.36 per year. Of that $551.36 only $202 is collision and comp the rest is mandatory in my state.

Fuel: Is free to me for the EV

Cost per mile @ 10K miles per year:
Spark:
$0.12 Lease
$0.06 Insurance
$0.00 Fuel
$0.18 Total

For comparison the 05 Prius averaged $0.26 per mile (not including insurance) Purchased used and kept for 10 years / 123,514 miles and averaged 46.34 mpg