Revisiting small 'freeway' scooters (70mph capable), 150-200cc ideally..

[freebeard]

It's sad that Arcimoto's travails have them putting the Cybertrike on a back burner. It's an exercycle/electric carver/scooter.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by new_bug

then I suppose the Rekluse kit etc might seriously become an option. Like an early vw?, MB sprinter, or smart car transmission...crude but fun-- gotcha. But I don't know, I like shifting even around town.. Despite the plastics, the 6-speed trans of a cbr250r for example really stood out on my memory vs most anything else at the time, which for 250cc's & under were mostly 5-speeds pre ~2020's

You still have to shift a bike with a Reklue clutch kit - you just don't have to clutch. It replaces the regular wet clutch pack with a centrifugal clutch. Twist the throttle and go, then change gears up and down as necessary. Closest thing I can think of is the auto clutch on the old Honda Trail 90's (and the new Trail 125)

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Closest thing I can think of is the auto clutch on the old Honda Trail 90's (and the new Trail 125)

Almost every horizontal-single Honda, still based on the Cub, feature it. AFAIK only the Asian XRM 125 and the Brazilian Pop 100 (carburettor-fed) and 110i still have a manual clutch now.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Almost every horizontal-single Honda, still based on the Cub, feature it. AFAIK only the Asian XRM 125 and the Brazilian Pop 100 (carburettor-fed) and 110i still have a manual clutch now.

In the USA the Honda sells the Grom and Monkey with a manual clutch while the Cub and Trail have an autoclutch. They all have the same 125cc single.

[new_bug]

I'd still love to figure out the closest possible SCOOTER to, for example the sym wolf 150cc motorcycle (150cc cg150 honda type, 14.7hp, 60-65mph , carb, 266lbs & mediocre fuel economy)

The super cub 125 (240lbs 9hp?) - is obviously a performer and looks much better than a grom for example.

I think I'd be happy with the kymco like 150i or the honda pcx150/adv150.. Will report back when I buy one! I've all but ruled out the sym hd200 (carb'd), and a few others from that 2000's era, as old technology.

If anyone reading this ever comes along and has any other scooter suggestions , I'd love to take a serious look at ANY other model/brand "lightweight" 150-225cc or "good power to weight" 125-250cc scooters
*that can hold 55-60mph , ....thanks in advance!

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

In the USA the Honda sells the Grom and Monkey with a manual clutch while the Cub and Trail have an autoclutch.

I've totally forgot about the Grom. About the Cub, AFAIK it had an automatic clutch instead. I knew some previous versions of the Monkey had an automatic clutch at least...

[Spaghetti Man]

Originally Posted by new_bug

Honda elite 150 from the 1980's could hit 70mph(gps) barely and hold 60mph(gps) up a slight incline, but it didn't sound too 'happy' if you tried to hold it there long. ~10hp 153cc ~236lbs(dry). ROUGH estimate from looking at fuelly- someone might hope to average say ~ high 60's to 80mpg ish (usa) riding the elite ch150 flat out @65mph, with fuel economy in mind.

Modern scooter options (fuel injected) in this same class/ 'ballpark' (cc/hp) should be the best 'all around high mpg', yet still fully freeway capable contenders. What bike (scooter) in this ~150cc-200cc class would YOU pick for mpg purposes and ability to handle just a little more than a PCX150 in top speed? 65mph+ for more than just a few exits, for example. Any input appreciated!


One size up, Honda Reflex 250cc (19hp ~375lbs) could hold 75mph & average high 60's mpg or a little more, on the interstate. But a Ninja 250 of the same era could average 80mpgs @65mph (almost without trying).... Still sometimes the scooter is more fun, storage/weather protection on a scooter is hard to beat.... and not tucking at all on the Ninja 250 might result in high 70's mpg's ridden conservatively at similar speeds.


The top modern scooter contenders... ?

Yamaha xc155 SMax, 15hp say ~315ish lbs (DRY) 155cc
-Looking at the numbers on fuelly, someone might optimistically shoot for mid to high 80's mpg's running flat out at 65mph , ? Have to admit I'm a fan of flat floor 'vintage' styled models vs maxi scooter styling, personal preference, generally speaking.

Yamaha NMax / NVX155 (15hp 260-270 lbs-ish,? (dry) 155cc), might perhaps be able to do a little better than the above smax on MPG but a little less on the top speed as well. - Let's estimate that it would likely max out at a real 68mph instead of 70mph. But a economy minded rider MIGHT optimistically aim for high 80mpg's to low 90mpg's @62-65mph, ?

Sym hd 200 evo , joyride 200i evo ? (I think around 171cc's) Yes can hit/hold 70mph? = what mpg's ? Other sym models?

Kymco offerings? (People 200i, I think around 163cc, not quite up to it as far as 70mph, for example).

Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilla, Genuine, etc? even some optimized form of the gy6 clone or similar?

Suzuki Burgman 200 (18hp, Yes 70mph capable , ~326lbs dry) ? Only con- price tag...

What else am I missing? Any models that stand out?


A Honda CBR125R sportsbike can pull off great mpg's and handle running flat out at 65mph+ , that's a good option if you're in Canada. Sym wolf 150cc standard can probably hold 62-65mph flat and maintain above average mpg's , it's very light. There are various standard motorcycle and faired offbrand/Chinese/etc options springing up the last 2-3 years in the 150-200cc motorcycle class. Not may of these can readily hold 65-70mph..

What other possible SCOOTER options am I missing? I'm currently keeping my eyes out on the used market. I would certainly pull the trigger on a great deal on a used pcx150 also, but something just one step up (65-70mph) would be a keeper, longer term.

Would be nice to have the under seat helmet storage, but it seems there aren't many SCOOTER choices that can quite hold their own vs motorcycles as far as potential for amazing MPG's at highway/interstate speeds ~

What can match the the 80+mpg (at 65-70mph) that a cbr250r & the old ninja 250 could achieve pretty readily... (I've owned both). Have my mind set on a scooter this time around!


It's easier to limit the discussion to stock vs stock as far as a starting point goes. Of course-I understand that aero can bring significant gains, with associated increase top speed. I personally wouldn't plan on major front end changes or lowering to reduce drag, although an optimized rear tail box would be in the cards for sure as time allows.

Thanks in advance for any experiences, model recommendations, & other input!

Consider the Yamaha YZF R15 v3 2021, it is superior to Honda CBR250R or any petrol motorcycle.

The reason the r15v3 is superior is the Variable Valve Actuation which offers efficiency at maximum power over 8000rpm as well as efficiency at 4000rpm.

In stock form it achieved 44km per litre (better than 40km/litre of Honda NBC110 and 35km/litre of Honda CBR125R).

With a tail box I am getting 48km/litre. In around town driving. On a highway trip of 160km with speeds 80km-120km per hour I averaged 42km/litre in stock form no tuck.

Variable Valve Actuation like fuel injection is an advancement in motorcycle engine technology which is no doubt why it is prevalent in cars.

I bought mine in 2021 right before ABS was mandated for new vehicles and it appears ABS plus inflation has increased the price from $4800 to $6299 which is insane.

The YZF-R15 is fairly uncomfortable resulting in persistent back and hand pain typical of race style motorcycles. My next project will fix this failure of design.

ps: Forget any scooter with a CVT they cannot compete with a geared motorcycle on efficiency.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Man

I bought mine in 2021 right before ABS was mandated for new vehicles and it appears ABS plus inflation has increased the price from $4800 to $6299 which is insane.

In my country, most motorcycles below 250cc are still available without ABS.