Revisiting small 'freeway' scooters (70mph capable), 150-200cc ideally..

[new_bug]

Honda elite 150 from the 1980's could hit 70mph(gps) barely and hold 60mph(gps) up a slight incline, but it didn't sound too 'happy' if you tried to hold it there long. ~10hp 153cc ~236lbs(dry). ROUGH estimate from looking at fuelly- someone might hope to average say ~ high 60's to 80mpg ish (usa) riding the elite ch150 flat out @65mph, with fuel economy in mind.

Modern scooter options (fuel injected) in this same class/ 'ballpark' (cc/hp) should be the best 'all around high mpg', yet still fully freeway capable contenders. What bike (scooter) in this ~150cc-200cc class would YOU pick for mpg purposes and ability to handle just a little more than a PCX150 in top speed? 65mph+ for more than just a few exits, for example. Any input appreciated!


One size up, Honda Reflex 250cc (19hp ~375lbs) could hold 75mph & average high 60's mpg or a little more, on the interstate. But a Ninja 250 of the same era could average 80mpgs @65mph (almost without trying).... Still sometimes the scooter is more fun, storage/weather protection on a scooter is hard to beat.... and not tucking at all on the Ninja 250 might result in high 70's mpg's ridden conservatively at similar speeds.


The top modern scooter contenders... ?

Yamaha xc155 SMax, 15hp say ~315ish lbs (DRY) 155cc
-Looking at the numbers on fuelly, someone might optimistically shoot for mid to high 80's mpg's running flat out at 65mph , ? Have to admit I'm a fan of flat floor 'vintage' styled models vs maxi scooter styling, personal preference, generally speaking.

Yamaha NMax / NVX155 (15hp 260-270 lbs-ish,? (dry) 155cc), might perhaps be able to do a little better than the above smax on MPG but a little less on the top speed as well. - Let's estimate that it would likely max out at a real 68mph instead of 70mph. But a economy minded rider MIGHT optimistically aim for high 80mpg's to low 90mpg's @62-65mph, ?

Sym hd 200 evo , joyride 200i evo ? (I think around 171cc's) Yes can hit/hold 70mph? = what mpg's ? Other sym models?

Kymco offerings? (People 200i, I think around 163cc, not quite up to it as far as 70mph, for example).

Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilla, Genuine, etc? even some optimized form of the gy6 clone or similar?

Suzuki Burgman 200 (18hp, Yes 70mph capable , ~326lbs dry) ? Only con- price tag...

What else am I missing? Any models that stand out?


A Honda CBR125R sportsbike can pull off great mpg's and handle running flat out at 65mph+ , that's a good option if you're in Canada. Sym wolf 150cc standard can probably hold 62-65mph flat and maintain above average mpg's , it's very light. There are various standard motorcycle and faired offbrand/Chinese/etc options springing up the last 2-3 years in the 150-200cc motorcycle class. Not may of these can readily hold 65-70mph..

What other possible SCOOTER options am I missing? I'm currently keeping my eyes out on the used market. I would certainly pull the trigger on a great deal on a used pcx150 also, but something just one step up (65-70mph) would be a keeper, longer term.

Would be nice to have the under seat helmet storage, but it seems there aren't many SCOOTER choices that can quite hold their own vs motorcycles as far as potential for amazing MPG's at highway/interstate speeds ~

What can match the the 80+mpg (at 65-70mph) that a cbr250r & the old ninja 250 could achieve pretty readily... (I've owned both). Have my mind set on a scooter this time around!


It's easier to limit the discussion to stock vs stock as far as a starting point goes. Of course-I understand that aero can bring significant gains, with associated increase top speed. I personally wouldn't plan on major front end changes or lowering to reduce drag, although an optimized rear tail box would be in the cards for sure as time allows.

Thanks in advance for any experiences, model recommendations, & other input!

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

I would single-out anything without ABS, at least for the front wheel.

[new_bug]

I like ABS too but I'm not fully convinced on it being a must-have. (Budget being the main factor). Certainly ABS would be a solid point if buying new, but on the used market it's hit and miss- mostly miss, as at least in the older model years of say 2000-2019 that I'm (personally) shopping in, if they had abs at all, it was often optional.

pcx150 -- (no abs - maybe on new-ish ones? ) , 13.3hp ~9200rpm 290lbs wet - perhaps aftermarket variator or other aftermarket will allow it to touch 70mph & hold 60-65? will it hold up and produce good mpg's this close to flat out?

xc155 yamaha - (no abs) 14.8hp 9500rpm , 328lb wet

Suzuki Burgman 200 - (yes abs).. not yet seeing availability on the used market,

SH150i Honda rare usa (no abs ) 15.5hp 300lbs wet

Keep in mind I'm personally not going to discuss models that are brand new or very limited in availability -

It would likely can take serious hunting or extending my radius to find many/any used possible examples that might have abs/(abs option) ,

here is one;
kymco like 150i abs .... (top speed more likely 60-mph not much more) , 13.5hp 9000rpm ~(estimate say 285lbs wet)


and just for comparison's sake,

Kymco Like 200i (older) (no abs) 163cc 10.86hp (@7500 rpm) redline maybe 8000ish(?)
~( rough estimate say 285lbs wet) (top speed likely 60- 65 max, maybe)...

Honda Reflex 250 (yes abs optional, carb) 19hp ~390lbs(?) ish, wet

Honda Helix 250 (no ABS, carb) 19hp ~365+/_ ish lbs wet
Honda Elite CH250 (no abs, carb) 19hp 293lbs wet
Honda elite CH150 (no abs, carb) 152cc 9.6hp (@7600rpm ~245lbs wet (rough )
SYM HD200, older (no abs, carb) 171cc 15,3hp 8000rpm (redline?) ~315 maybe wet
Kymco Yager 200i (174cc)
, or Downtown 200i (205cc)
Or People 200i gt (205cc)

Honda PCX160 (yes abs) new only
Honda ADV150 (yes abs, but 2021 & newer so not a real option for me) 294lbs

Piaggio Liberty 150 (yes front abs, on newer models say ~2017+, I'm not sure)
12.9hp 155cc ~255lbs wet (guessing ~65mph ish max speed)

Genuine Buddy 170i ~maybe 265lbs?
Lance 200i (11.6 hp-ish ?)


Vespa (2014+ fuel injected) , Sprint 155cc may have front abs or option I believe?

Aprilla ?

Overall, unfortunately I don't think ABS is the "norm" for these small 150-200cc's yet....(except in Europe of course.....)

maybe there are some I'm missing?

Yes overall big wheels and longer wheelbase will be factors in calling something a "interstate capable" scooter, but I'd (personally) be OK with smaller wheels if I get a flat floor and lighter overall curb weight, but still adequate 65+ mph speed...

So what other fuel injected scooters with good MPG potential UNDER say 275-320lb curb weight and say 13-14hp OR MORE (at the crankshaft) approximate "150-200cc size/range" ...are out there? with or without ABS that is,..

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by new_bug

Overall, unfortunately I don't think ABS is the "norm" for these small 150-200cc's yet....(except in Europe of course.....)

maybe there are some I'm missing?

Most of those scooters being imported from countries where ABS at least on the front wheel has been either mandatory for any motorcycle or scooter 125cc and above (it happens in some Asian countries such as Indonesia and Thailand too), or just becoming widespread due to economics of scale, so if you look for 2017 or slightly newer you might be more likely find something with ABS.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I would single-out anything without ABS, at least for the front wheel.

Losing a front wheel is less catastrophic than a rear. Sure, you can't recover from it, but you also can't high side due to loss of front traction.

Losing traction from braking on the front wheel almost never happens. I've only ever done that once, and probably never will repeat that mistake again.

I've lost the rear many times, but fortunately have never high sided.

[Piotrsko]

Sand or otherwise loose debris caused front lock up for for me couple times which caused me to go full crash bars. Ymmv

[new_bug]

Some top contenders so far
~2016 SMAX xc155 yamaha - (no abs) 328lb wet, 14.8hp, 13"/13" front,back wheel dia
~*2018 Kymco Like 150i abs (267dry,~285 wet, guess) 13.8hp 12"/12"
*not necessarily a ~65mph bike, more like a pcx150 in that it might touch 63-65mph & hold 60mph?
~2012 Kymco Yager 200i (no abs)(308dry maybe ~330 wet, guess) 175cc 15.5hp 13"/12"

Overall ABS would be great but not a dealbraker, for example only one of my last ~10 or so 250cc-400cc motorcycles had ABS and I've managed OK. ABS did start showing up in this size range around ~ 2017+ or a little earlier, BUT not all models have it ESPECIALLY 150-200cc.

Sure, if it were $200-$400 extra for ABS - easy choice, I'd pay the extra.
But if the extra cost to track down a USED, otherwise equivalent scooter with ABS is $1000-1500 additional, on a segment of scooters that sold for $3200-$5000 new... not such an easy choice.
So the used market looks like this:
w/ ABS 150-200cc = used asking price ~75% of new price, not many "priced to sell"
non-ABS 150-200cc, fuel injected = used price 50% or below new price, more choices


Overall (USA market) not until new/updated models around 2020+ does ABS seem to be "commonplace".. Most people in the states buy scooters/motorcycles as toys vs the rest of the world where they are utilitarian/commuters. (Americans are not necessarily thinking of riding 'em in the rain, & price point often being a deciding factor).

Fuel injected started showing up around ~2010+ so there are more potential 'good deals' out there that still meet my criteria


The following .....also seem like possible options that could maintain the ~65mph realistic cruising speed that IS a MAIN DECIDING FACTOR for me.......
-SYM hd200/rv200 (carb'd ~169cc?) -not sure but maybe new similar ones are FI
-Other Kymco models? including a 205cc (People GT 200i/similar, new-ish) (heavier)
-Genuine 170i & 220i
-Suzuki Burgman 200 (abs), (heavy @ ~360lbs wet)


Aprilla?, Vespa?, Piaggio?, Lance (Sym)? Others?

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by new_bug

Aprilla?, Vespa?, Piaggio?, Lance (Sym)? Others?

Sunday in the afternoon I took a closer look at a Vespa VXL 150 while I was taking the dog for a walk. One of the first thing I noticed was an ABS decal on the front fender. Not so sure how comfortable I would be to ride it in a freeway.

[Piotrsko]

Only valid vespa experience was watching them in Italy where they have all sorts of odd covers for riding in the rain and cold. Most look like blankets made of a naugahyde sort of waterproof cover with padding attached or gauntlets for your hands and arms.

Vespa is rated for California freeways? Suicide machine then. There was a review in the WSJ this weekend from the car reviewer who said they could split lanes on the 405 but I thought THAT'S crazy.

[freebeard]

Anyone one know if this [apparent] Honda is on topic? The tailpipe looks a little big.

justacarguy.blogspot.com: this is terrific... if you can do something fun like this, WHY NOT?