Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-26-2021, 02:27 AM   #111 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,374

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 736
Thanked 394 Times in 305 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Gasoline and Diesel vehicles have been held to identical emission standards since 2010. HC and NOx are now bundled together so that doesn't give either fuel an advantage. CO2 standards are also identical.
The standards are the same, but what differnt kinds of engines are capable of can differ.

Gasoline engines are easy to clean up the NOx in because they are easy to run at a stoichiometric AFR.

But diesels are easier to clean up the CO and HC emissiions in because they have to run lean. Although I guess getting gasoline exhaust to burn up completely could be as easy as intalling an air pump to pump in air at some point before a catalyst to burn up the left over CO and HC emissions.

Historically diesels have gotten better energy per unit of CO2 released although it's not leaps and bounds better than Gasoline. However, some techniques that try to get gasoline engines to get as efficient as diesel engines make them produce more PM and NOx emissions (e.g. lean burn or direct injection)

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-26-2021, 11:16 AM   #112 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,569

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touraeg
Thanks: 269
Thanked 1,138 Times in 777 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Gasoline and Diesel vehicles have been held to identical emission standards since 2010. HC and NOx are now bundled together so that doesn't give either fuel an advantage. CO2 standards are also identical.
Our too strict NOX standard is the problem in both cases, but it is especially harmful to diesel technology. It's like creating a standard that applies to everything but has an impossible limit on something only one power supply produces. What if there was a standard on heavy metal breakdown over time in say catalytic converters that diesels could easily meet and gas would have great difficulty. Same standard across the board so it's fair right? If diesels are going away globally it's only because they are following the US lead in killing them intentionally. If man made global warming is the biggest threat we face than NOx isn't the problem at all, if anything it helps with a cooling effect.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2021, 12:24 PM   #113 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,955

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 243
Thanked 1,682 Times in 1,140 Posts
We reduce both CO2 and smog - it isn't an either or situation. That is a false choice.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
Isaac Zachary (11-27-2021)
Old 11-27-2021, 07:48 PM   #114 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 11,433
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,438 Times in 1,284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
If diesels are going away globally it's only because they are following the US lead in killing them intentionally.
Odd enough, even though Italy used to be the most traditional supplier for CNG conversion equipments, nowadays China is also playing hard on this field. There used to be some weird low-pressure Natural Gas systems widely used for buses in China at least until early-'90s, relying on plastic bags as fuel tanks, similar to what used to be fitted to some vehicles in Europe to use coal gas during WWII.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2021, 10:06 AM   #115 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
People did not create and move to suburbs just to spite on eco-oriented people; they moved away from high housing prices and crime. Price out an average apartment in Zürich or NYC sometime. Of course, that happened after they did not have to walk to work/shopping anymore because transportation -- cars, trams, buses -- were available and affordable.

About car sizes, the small cars fit well in areas where parking is at a premium. For a while, the price of having a small and efficient car was it was not as nice to drive for a long distance as a larger one. Compare a 70s Mercedes with a Beetle, or how long it took for VW to make their cars comfortable cruisers. I am not saying modern small cars ride like crap though.

Intercity trains have their place but are expensive. Top Gear had a challenge that showed you could buy an used car and drive it from London to Manchester and back for less than it would cost to take a train. I once took a train across 4 US states to pick my car. The one way train trip cost more than 2x what I paid for fuel in the not very efficient (but paid for years ago) car but took 12h + additional 3h waiting on the train to arrive vs 6h on car (70mph). And, yes, I know one cannot compare AMTRAK with European train companies but that is the datapoint I can offer.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to raubvogel For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (12-24-2021)
Old 12-24-2021, 01:55 PM   #116 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 24,381
Thanks: 6,888
Thanked 7,761 Times in 6,347 Posts
I was surprised that buses are safer than trains.
Quote:
https://www.bus.com › blog › safest-mode-of-transportation
Train travel is also an exceedingly safe mode of transportation, coming in at a respectable third place behind bus and air travel. Much like air travel, whenever an accident does occur, it is sure to make headlines all over the world, but it's important to note that it's exactly the rarity of these accidents that makes them so newsworthy.
__________________
.
.

Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
____________________

"Stuff just keeps on getting older...." -- Graham Hancock

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2021, 02:50 PM   #117 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 11,433
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,438 Times in 1,284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
For a while, the price of having a small and efficient car was it was not as nice to drive for a long distance as a larger one. Compare a 70s Mercedes with a Beetle, or how long it took for VW to make their cars comfortable cruisers.
Sure I wouldn't expect a Beetle to be as smooth as a W123 Mercedes-Benz, but it's not so bad at all. On a sidenote, when it comes to economy cars and better comfort, things changed around the '80s or '90s with models such as the Fiat Uno which was surprisingly roomy for its external size, or the Opel Corsa B which effectively replaced the Beetle in Mexico.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2021, 03:46 PM   #118 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,780

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 466
Thanked 832 Times in 628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
We reduce both CO2 and smog - it isn't an either or situation. That is a false choice.
Dangerous Smog cannot form without VOC, the opposite is not true of manmade NOX

In the valley bad air quality is mostly a problem with “stationary sources”

It’s a false narrative that vehicle sources are the primary driver when poorly maintained 1960’s era refineries are nearby with requent spills and accidental releases and breakdowns
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2021, 04:05 PM   #119 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 24,381
Thanks: 6,888
Thanked 7,761 Times in 6,347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr
Sure I wouldn't expect a Beetle to be as smooth as a W123 Mercedes-Benz, but it's not so bad at all.
When my mother rode in my Type III she commented on how nice it rode (stanced BTW), so I explained about the rubber mounted subframes front and rear.



Extending the wheelbase up to 8" in front is possible with the Beetle.
__________________
.
.

Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
____________________

"Stuff just keeps on getting older...." -- Graham Hancock

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2021, 04:08 PM   #120 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 11,433
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,438 Times in 1,284 Posts
I remember seeing similar subframes in Brazil, yet I don't remember which models featured it. You might know the Brazilian Type 3 was technically not the same as the German, AFAIK it still retained the swing-axles well into the '70s, and only the Variant II got rid of them to use the same semi-trailing arms and CV joints setup fitted to the Kombi from mid-'70s to 2013, and the McPherson struts shared with the Passat upfront.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com