School shooting on Brazil Today.

[All Darc]

Tragedy...
Today 8 people were killed by former students in a school. 10 people died if we count the shooter, since one shooter killed the other and then commited suicide.

By looking the video there was not much that could be done if a teacher or inspector had guns, like some people imagine.The first shooter arrive, looking like a student, with calm take a gun and shoot many students. If there was a teacher or inspector with gun, they would probably be the first target of the shooter.
I believe that even a police officer would be the first target, since the student would remove the gun and point to hin while outside og the policeman view fild.

After the huge panic there would be no way to students in panic stop, reach a teacher or inspector and describe the shooter and then the teacher/inspector go after the shooter to put hin down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NRB...has_verified=1

https://video32.mais.uol.com.br/1662...25225347518807

[freebeard]

Bummer.

[redpoint5]

Heartbreaking.

Someone fought back though. That's what it takes. Only a few people fighting back will save many.

If someone wants you dead, there's nothing you can do to prevent it. The point isn't to save the 1 person, it's to save the many others. Several people carrying guns who are not identified as carrying guns may have stopped the rampage before it got to 8 people. In the US, the body count is often higher.

There was a guy that came into the autopart store with a revolver on his hip. Unfortunately this is an uncommon practice here, at least where I live. If people routinely (and openly) carried, it would send the message to bad guys that they are likely to be met with prepared opposition.

My sister conceal carries. Doesn't send the message to not mess about, but she'd certainly respond if needed.

[All Darc]

The shooter had the surprise element. There was no time to a buch of people identify the shooter and move against hin, since the panic and the surprise element it's too strong. This could lead to miss identification of the shooter and people shooting other people while imnagining the defense response was just another shooter.

USA people have easier access to automatic guns or compact automati guns. These brazilian shooter had only a pistol or revolver, a hatchet and a crossbow.

Look the second link I posted, without the large blur effect on video. The second guy it's the second evil guy, and he attacked people with a hatchet.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Heartbreaking.

Someone fought back though. That's what it takes. Only a few people fighting back will save many.

If someone wants you dead, there's nothing you can do to prevent it. The point isn't to save the 1 person, it's to save the many others. Several people carrying guns who are not identified as carrying guns may have stopped the rampage before it got to 8 people. In the US, the body count is often higher.

There was a guy that came into the autopart store with a revolver on his hip. Unfortunately this is an uncommon practice here, at least where I live. If people routinely (and openly) carried, it would send the message to bad guys that they are likely to be met with prepared opposition.

My sister conceal carries. Doesn't send the message to not mess about, but she'd certainly respond if needed.

[All Darc]

Detail... the shooters planned suicide, so they had nothing to lose. They would not care if there was policeman with pistols, since the would hit the police by the back and then shoot the other people.

Your example of a citizen with gun on the hip, as intmidation against criminals, only works when criminals have something to loose.

[redpoint5]

I'm not going to watch a non-blurred video.

The surprise element is impossible to counter, which is why there will always be some casualties. Preventing all mistakes in responding to an attack is also impossible.

That said, when soldiers go out to confront a threat, they are given weapons instead of nice words. Friendly fire occurs, but mostly they just kill the enemy. Arming good guys is the only effective strategy in contending with bad guys.

It's a very tricky thing to weaken bad guys while not also weakening good guys.

Too bad these guys didn't start by killing themselves. It's all senseless.

[oil pan 4]

Well they passed a bunch of gun laws and violent crime looks like it's only getting worse.

Yeah the anti gun people here in the US always say people defending them selves will start shooting each other in a situation like this but as far as I can tell it's never happed at least in the US.

If I'm ever somewhere that gets shot up by some lunatic I'm running away. Screw everyone else. "Going after the shooter" is a nothing to gain everything to lose situation. Only way I would engage the shooter is if escape is not possible.
But they tend to initiate the deed in a kill box, some where that the exits are few and can be easily controlled that also happens to be a gun free zone.

[All Darc]

I'm in favor of remove guns from criminals, and allow some citizens (especial ones up to in terms of skills and emotional and clean record) to have and carry guns. But USA laws ar far too crazy, allowing almost anyone to buy automatic weapons.

[freebeard]

Please understand semiautomatic ≠ automatic. There're regulations involved.

Detail... the shooters planned suicide, so they had nothing to lose.

We'll never know. One of them did, who knows what the other thought would happen.

[redpoint5]

I can agree with laws that take reasonable measure to not hand weapons into the wrong hands. As I've said, we require basic proficiency tests for getting a license to drive a vehicle, and I'm not opposed to a law requiring citizens to show proficiency in the safe handling of firearms, both a demonstration and written test. It should be equally cheap too, like $50 to take the test. Let the NRA administer it.

As far as engaging the shooter(s) go, I was born to. Doesn't matter if I'm armed or not. Opposing evil is the moral thing to do. Life is always lost, but rarely lived well.