Seen on CNN: Hydrogen used to Increase Mileage

[Silvey01]

Crazyrabbit, the link to the website I was thinking about is http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hydroxy%20Boosters.pdf
Looks like they shorten it a little, but it looks like there's somemore information in there now.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Crazyrabbit

"BONUS #3 - HyperMiling - The Art of Driving To Save Fuel

Through extensive trial and error, many techniques have been discovered that can as much as double your fuel economy just by driving a certain way. Some of these techniques were featured on CNN and the complete guide has been sold for as much as $79.99. Combined with the Gas4Free system, this allows MAXIMUM GAS SAVINGS.
Value: $79.95 yours FREE"

Further obscuring the methods necessary to prove crackpot scams like Hydroxy.

[Crazyrabbit]

Here's a link to Jacob Wall reading excerpts from a number of scientific journal papers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4BQ4nfn2To

There is a part 2 as well.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Crazyrabbit

Here's a link to Jacob Wall reading excerpts from a number of scientific journal papers. There is a part 2 as well.

What a bunch of crap. Adding 10% hydrogen by mass from a bottle? Hydrogen has about 5 times the energy density (by mass) than ethanol (that's why rockets like it)

File:Energy density.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit: That youtube is a complete farse too, the owner deletes negative comments and allows crap like "this will save you tons of money" comments to stay. The video author is no scientist and is gaming the comment stack, this isn't about facts at all.

[Crazyrabbit]

It appears there is a preponderance of scientific journal papers saying it works. There are well planned and executed experiments on both the system level and basic combustion testing. The noted increases in NOx formation point to the temperature and pressure of combustion being raised substantially. And it is also noted that Diesel engines benefit the most. I might just have to get one.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by dcb

...and allows crap like "this will save you tons of money" comments to stay.

...uh, are those metric-tonnes or SAE-tons of money (dollars, pounds, or bullion)?

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Crazyrabbit

It appears there is a preponderance of scientific journal papers saying it works. There are well planned and executed experiments on both the system level and basic combustion testing. The noted increases in NOx formation point to the temperature and pressure of combustion being raised substantially. And it is also noted that Diesel engines benefit the most. I might just have to get one.

When you add 50% of your energy as hydrogen like when they add 10% by mass of hydrogen, you can run leaner (and increase nox), doesn't it stand to reason that if there is more energy available by tapping into the alternator that you do not even need gasoline at all? Just a water tank and an alternator, right?

I'm not sure what you mean by "it works" or what standards you hold people claiming it works to. There have been a preponderance of real world people who have had no measurable success with it.

[Crazyrabbit]

Originally Posted by dcb

I'm not sure what you mean by "it works" or what standards you hold people claiming it works to. There have been a preponderance of real world people who have had no measurable success with it.

DCB I looked at a lot of sources of information on this subject, and I am with you on the power of hydrogen, the lower heating value is like 54,000 BTU/lb, that why a little goes a long way. There are some people who experience a loss of mpg. They are people who generally don't seem to know what they are doing. And there are always going to be people like that around. Their vehicles maybe smart enough to foil their efforts without retuning the vehicles fuel management system. Think about oxygenated fuel, the EPA foisted that upon us, but where is the benefit? Most vehicles simply compensate by burning more fuel. If you look at the feedbacks of people selling this stuff on e-Bay, another picture appears. There are a lot of repeat customers. People fitting these systems to their fleets. A Police Department fitting them to their fleet.

This system works just as I surmised earlier. It is not a perpetual motion scheme, it is a catalyst to promote faster, hotter, and more complete combustion of the fuel already in the vehicle. The more efficient the vehicle, the less this system can help.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Crazyrabbit

...
This system works just as I surmised earlier. It is not a perpetual motion scheme, it is a catalyst to promote faster, hotter, and more complete combustion of the fuel already in the vehicle.

There is no doubt this belongs in the coral. Not even your testing of it would be compelling at this point because you are not discussing science, but popularity, and have an "It works" agenda. i.e. you "want to believe". You would need to be very exacting in deed and method if you wish to convince anyone else that it is more than the placebo effect.

Nonetheless you are still saying (now with the buzzword, catalyst) that your car will work better by burning gas to turn the alternator to make hydrogen to put in the intake. That even when mythbusters tried it on a most inefficient old car, it didn't do squat, and this guy either. Water Car Test - HHO Shows Why You Can't Run Cars on Water - Popular Mechanics

If you are bent on trying it, then do it already. If you are "sold" by a 3 page paper from Turkey that said a volvo got %43 reduction in fuel consumption, then go for it. If you think ebay feedback is sufficient proof, then do it. Do not expect anyone else to do it, cuz it doesn't make much sense, so go for it. If you don't see gains I'm sure someone will explain it is because you aren't doing it right.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Crazyrabbit

It appears there is a preponderance of scientific journal papers saying it works. There are well planned and executed experiments on both the system level and basic combustion testing. The noted increases in NOx formation point to the temperature and pressure of combustion being raised substantially. And it is also noted that Diesel engines benefit the most. I might just have to get one.

Show just one. Talk is cheap.