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Old 06-28-2013, 08:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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...much of my distaste for this is because it is %100 series, downsizing the engine doesn't change that...
This is true.

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So if, for example, that engine were directly clutched to an appropriate sprocket and chain to a wheel, the same vehicle could cruise at like 160mpg all day vs 88.
But how does one accomplish such a task? Putting an engine to a drive system in such manner seems to negate anything else being there, thus, one is required to upsize the dino burner in order to accelerate and be useful.

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Clutch in a motor in parallel, do some more maths and research bro, I'm out.
This is certainly more efficient but exists only in SolidWorks.

Something beefy enough to accel with, and then drop to dino @ 25hp for cruising. We seem to be very good at doing the opposite of that...

Now, slow speed direct-drive electric sucks much juice, but already rolling... See, backwards.

Perhaps a hydraulic drive to front wheel motors? Pop open a bypass valve like a 'clutch.' Engage once rolling? It seems to do it this way, we need to seriously re-engineer how the mechanical side works. I might imagine it, but I doubt I could ever afford it.

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Old 06-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Your warp9 (not a transwarp I assume) is set up to go through a clutch/trans, so lets assume that will work fine for the electrical. If it is an automatic it might not like having the motor not spinning.

You would need a distinctly different/smaller transmission for a small diesel engine anyway, harley davidson uses a divorced transmission and clutch fyi, but there are other options as well, such as a simple in/out box and starting the diesel and rev-matching, using electric to get you up to a speed where you could rpm match.

This is going to take a lot of (hopefully your) effort to figure out if it even makes sense, emergency generators are good for emergencies, but I can't get my head around a tiny diesel f150 on farm duty.

How about a getting a $300 trailer for your passat? I have one for my prius, and I basically have a 50mpg pickup on demand.

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Old 06-29-2013, 06:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by P-hack View Post
So if, for example, that engine were directly clutched to an appropriate sprocket and chain to a wheel, the same vehicle could cruise at like 160mpg all day vs 88.

Clutch in a motor in parallel, do some more maths and research bro, I'm out.
That isn't accurate though, his minivan is heavier and not as aero as the Honda Insight, a diesel of similar efficiency has trouble breaking 100mpg under normal driving conditions,

In other words the genset is only efficient when properly loaded, overloaded or underloaded MPG would be cut in half easily, this means that in this paticular situation Series wins.
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Old 06-29-2013, 06:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You came up with the 88mpg at 25 mph figure for the kei, I wasn't changing the 25mph (or the kei part). I was using the exact same engine, and bypassing the generator, and the conversion/rectification, and the controller and the motor/drivetrain part, replacing all that with a chain and sprocket, and you say "series wins".

Sigh. good luck camosoul.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Passat totaled by 12 point buck. Project scrapped.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:01 PM   #26 (permalink)
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May i suggest the following project:

F-150 with the drive line from the Passat powering the front wheels.
Electric motor driving the rear, with manual control over push/regen.
A reasonable amount of battery capacity and a plugin charger.
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Sorry about the passat, hopefully you are ok and the engine/drivetrain is salvageable, lots of potential there, but sucks how it was perfectly kinetic prior :/
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You came up with the 88mpg at 25 mph figure for the kei, I wasn't changing the 25mph (or the kei part). I was using the exact same engine, and bypassing the generator, and the conversion/rectification, and the controller and the motor/drivetrain part, replacing all that with a chain and sprocket, and you say "series wins".

Sigh. good luck camosoul.
The conversion factor is overcome by being able to hold the motor at its one efficient point, other motors might behave differently but that one would not work for accelerating direct drive or driving at any point other than WOT.
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:20 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The conversion factor is overcome by being able to hold the motor at its one efficient point, other motors might behave differently but that one would not work for accelerating direct drive or driving at any point other than WOT.
I'm not advocating unloading the engine, but if you want hybrid, the car is moving in a parallel system you can still charge batteries with the engine as needed, or assist with the load using the batteries.

From the site for that generator:
4.5kw output continuous (5kw max)

Consumption at 1/2 load 0.24 gallons/hour
Consumption at 3/4 load 0.30 gallons/hour
Consumption at full load 0.34 gallons/hour (4.5kw assumed?)

half load uses %71 of the fuel consumption as full load.
3/4 uses %88 of the fuel as full load.
So, like many engines, it likes full load, but it doesn't mean it is terribly rpm sensitive efficiency wise, most bsfc charts have a wider than taller island. And you can just use electric at those low speeds where it makes sense, no law against having a series sized motor on a parallel hybrid if the situation demands it.

But since we have a fuel consumption figure, lets look at the bsfc coming out of the generator:
.34 gallons is about 1.29 litres, or 1095 g of diesel, divided by 4.5kw is 243 g/kwh, when fully loaded, which is ok, on par with a saturn at peak bsfc.

But that is also fully loaded, and if the engine is capable of 200g/kwh then that is like a %20 penalty when accelerating (efficiently) and cruising, zero opportunity to recover it, plus rectification and controller/motor. You must pump up the batteries to load the engine during cruise, and eventually they get full. Parallel can far more efficiently apply the needed torque to the wheels and load /unload the batteries if that proves out, either when accelerating or cruising.

Unless all the mechanical/electrical electrical/mechanical conversions start approaching the same efficiency as a gearbox under various conditions, parallel wins, it is simply a matter of power management. Varying load is still a problem.

Series only is a glorified and lossy torque converter without lockup. PLEASE lets not make that mistake again!
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:44 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Sorry about the passat, hopefully you are ok and the engine/drivetrain is salvageable, lots of potential there, but sucks how it was perfectly kinetic prior :/
I stripped off the FUBARed body panels today. No major underhood damage. It drives. But damage is far more than the value of the car.

I've always wanted to build one of these as a TDI: DDR Motorsport

Looks like I've got my donor vehicle... Budget for electric/hybrid shifted over... I was waiting for my mid-life crisis, but then I realize I already had 4 of them by the time I was 30... ;-)

I refuse to be set back and extorted again. I'll just have to kick ass instead.

Guess the thread itself is off topic for the forum at this point. It'll be kinda-sorta green. WMO/WVO. 55+ MPG (after ECU upgrade, passat was already running 51MPG, DDR is more aerodynamic and weighs less).

There is a school in South Florida that DDR hooked up with and are building a hybrid out of it...

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