Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-31-2022, 11:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,477

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 823
Thanked 419 Times in 327 Posts
Should I get an Outback?

I hope to use the Avalon for as long as possible. And hopefully by the time it dies used car prices go back to normal.

But what if the Avalon were totaled tomorrow (and I survive)?

In trying to find a car I like it seems that the Subaru Outback is as close as I can find to what I want. Things that are important to me are:
  1. Spare tire.
  2. Fuel mileage.
  3. Safety (the Outback is on the IIHS Top Safety Pick+ list and has a 5 star rating with NHTSA).
  4. Can pass the Moose Test.
  5. Passenger room (mainly leg room, not head room).
  6. Not a RWD (I'd prefer FWD).
  7. Towing capacity (or it has to be a pickup).
  8. Cargo room. (I like the station wagon style over the CUV style).
The RAV4 Prime came close, but is way more expensive. And last I checked, it wasn't on the IIHS's Top Safety Picks and had a 4 star crash rating. It also lost control in the Moose Test.

Another vehicle in mind is the Ford Maverick, which may get better fuel mileage. I don't need the AWD aspect of the Outback. I did fine today towing around my trailer with a snowblower on it in my Avalon in 8" of fresh snow.

The sad thing is the Outback doesn't get stellar fuel mileage.

Any other good candidates out there?

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-01-2023, 02:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: oregon
Posts: 715

Black Bullet - '19 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Blue
Thanks: 0
Thanked 374 Times in 312 Posts
Doesn’t Subaru have a hybrid now?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2023, 05:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,477

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 823
Thanked 419 Times in 327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase View Post
Doesn’t Subaru have a hybrid now?
I can't seem to find any. I think they're ditching their plug-in hybrids for a full EV version that's in the same price range as a Tesla.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2023, 11:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
Growin a stash
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 773
Thanks: 403
Thanked 285 Times in 215 Posts
Crosstrek plug in hybrid, if you can find one. Not sure about their reliability.
__________________


2015 Nissan Leaf S, 164 mpge
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2023, 12:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,071

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 25.39 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,775
Thanked 4,095 Times in 3,106 Posts
No.

Subaru isn't the value brand. If financials are tight, stick to the value brands.

As far as I know, Subaru has always had a flawed design with regards to the head gasket and never thought their customers were worthy of having an unflawed design.

I had great luck with my Subaru, but I think I'm in the minority. It didn't have great fuel economy for how weak it was.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Piotrsko (01-02-2023)
Old 01-02-2023, 12:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,477

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 823
Thanked 419 Times in 327 Posts
It looks like the RAV4 does now indeed pass the moose test, get a 5 star NHTSA rating and is now on the IIHS's Top Safety Pick+ list, at least the hybrid does.

I wonder if it's worth the 3mph highway improvement with the RAV4 hybrid over the non-hybrid as I seem to do a lot more highway driving and don't have long enough town distances to really take advantage of the hybrid system on the Avalon.

Too bad the RAV4 Prime is over $10,000 more than the standard hybrid.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2023, 10:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 3,371
Thanks: 387
Thanked 975 Times in 858 Posts
I would think the Avalon is significantly better on short slow trip useage: no warm up inefficiencies, airspeed isn't significant for much drag and possibly a chance for some regen at some point of the trip.

In your case the Rav4 could be the better choice. Decent sized towns are far apart in Colorado. How close is the nearest mega mart?
__________________
casual notes from the underground:There are some "experts" out there that in reality don't have a clue as to what they are doing.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Piotrsko For This Useful Post:
Isaac Zachary (01-02-2023)
Old 01-02-2023, 11:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,477

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 823
Thanked 419 Times in 327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
I would think the Avalon is significantly better
Yes! Hence:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
I hope to use the Avalon for as long as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
Other than your charging issue.
The Avalon isn't a plug-in hybrid. But I do plug it in every night, I mean I plug in the engine block heater on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
no warm up inefficiencies
I think it has terible warm up inefficiencies. Even with the block heater it doesn't seem to help much in terms of fuel mileage. My daily driving is short trips here and there, and most of those show less than 20mpg, sometimes less than 10! I got a 1,500W block heater that I want to try to get temps up to around 175°F before driving off instead of around 30°F more than ambient like the stock block heater. But I also think the NiMH battery probably needs heating too. (Ideally I'd have a plug-in hybrid or an EV for around town and an ICEV for the highway).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
airspeed isn't significant for drag
Yes! Much better than a RAV4 that has a lower MPG rating on the highway. I hit the highway sometimes only once or twice a week, but when I do it's hundred and hundreds of miles. The Subaru seems like it would be more aerodynamic than the RAV4, but I have no idea if it really is. And when I do I get around 45 to 50mpg in the Avalon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
and possibly a chance for some regen at some point of the trip.
True.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2023, 04:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 90

Passat TDI Wagon - '97 VW Passat Wagon TDI
90 day: 54.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 26
Thanked 46 Times in 36 Posts
My Outback experience

My extended family has been driving multiple Subarus for about 20 years. I have never had one for my own as a daily though.

Winter driving is top notch. You forget you are even on snow and ice, which can be problematic going into a corner too fast. We never had to get studs on any of our Subarus.

Build quality is good. Yes there is the older Outback head gasket issue. This was mostly due to the factree fabric head gasket which would fail if the coolant wasn't changed like clockwork per spec. The old coolant would go acetic and dissolve the fabric gasket coating. I replaced the head gaskets in my daughter's '99 Outback. Wasn't the worst or hardest job I have done, but the motor had to come out. Replacement head gaskets are steel and don't have this issue. I would bet that the head gasket issue is long gone or they would not be in business in 2023.

The older 1997- 2008 Subaru Outbacks s were notorious for rear oil leaks, which always leak onto the exhaust and you always smell burning oil. There is a plastic oil cooler housing thingy on the back side of the motor that cracks and leaks. They make a steel replacement, but motor has to come out to replace it.

Subaru factree parts are fairly priced compared to other manufacturers. When I replaced my daughters head gasket, I bought every new gasket, seal, belt, and wearable part, timing belt, oil seals, head bolts, etc. from the short block up and still didn't spend $400.

Outbacks do not get very good gas mileage. I have never seen over 28 mpg in an Outback. Maybe brand new ones are better. The transfer case is AWD and does have parasitic drag.

There is no 4wd switch, its AWD all the time. If you get one flat tire, expect to have to buy 4 new tires. The chain tire stores rarely will repair a single flat tire anymore (there is always an excuse why they can't fix yours) and being AWD, your allowance between tires wear is only 2/32" or you will ruin your transfer case. Unless your other 3 tires are new, expect to shell out $600 - $700 in tires every few years.

The inside cargo capacity isn't very good. With two kids, we traded our Outback in to get a mini van, as we didn't have enough cargo capacity for luggage and dogs when traveling. Most Outbacks with four passengers on road trips that I see have a roof top carrier, and that sucks down gas mileage.

Something about the flat 4 they use, is it has no low end torque. It feels if there is really no power below 3,000 rpms in every Subaru 2.5 I have driven. They do pull hard after 3,000 rpms though.
__________________
97 Passat TDI Wagon
Bosio 520 DLC nozzles, chip tune
Mufflerectomy
306k miles
Scan Gauge II
full belly pan
26 gallon tank
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Caddylackn For This Useful Post:
Isaac Zachary (01-02-2023), JSH (01-20-2023), redpoint5 (01-02-2023)
Old 01-02-2023, 09:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,071

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 25.39 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,775
Thanked 4,095 Times in 3,106 Posts
I don't arrive at the "no" suggestion lightly because the car I am most fond of was my 1996 Legacy. Most of that fondness is probably that it was the first car I owned outright, and youth brings with it many memories. It did handle all of the constant abuse I threw at it though.

I don't like how weak Subarus are. I don't like that they don't get good fuel economy despite their weakness. I do appreciate that if you happen to get stuck in one, it's because you've done something fantastically foolish, and now you're really stuck.

They're no more seats in a Subaru than an Avalon. AWD is overrated, because all cars are all wheel corner and brake. How often is the limiting factor that acceleration is insufficient AND good winter tires are installed?

A Subaru is a lateral move, but not even that, because it gets worse fuel economy.

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!

Last edited by redpoint5; 01-02-2023 at 09:43 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Isaac Zachary (01-03-2023)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com