The Slow Death of the Internal Combustion Engine

[oil pan 4]

I have a J1772.
Which is one way power flow only.
They coat about $160
A 2 way power flow chademo system starts at $4,000.

[RedDevil]

It should not have to be that expensive.
There will be cheaper options available once the numbers go up.

[Taylor95]

Even at 1/4 of that price ($1000), most people wouldn't see the benefit of a two way system outweighing the cost. One thing carmakers could do is include that in the price of the vehicle. Otherwise no one would want to buy it.

[RedDevil]

It is the energy companies that will push for it. They benefit, so they have the incentive to make it attractive.

My energy company uses Jedlix to facilitate smart charging. You set the time you expect to leave, Jedlix will make sure your car is fully charged by then, but it will try to find the best time to do so.
It does not do V2G apparently, but that could fit in.

The user gets a 2 c/kWh reduction on the charge cost. That isn't much, but there are no additional costs. You need no special equipment at all - except for a smartphone to run the app and your car to be either a Renault Zoe or a Tesla.

[oil pan 4]

The circuitry is a lot like a modern high frequency welding machine or plasma cutter but with way different controls.
With competition and more production the cost of these back feeding chargers could be cut in half, maybe.

Then there is the slightest problem where only chademo equipped cars can back feed power. Not even tesla can do that. I'm sure tesla has made a 1 off demonstration vehicle that does such a thing but those don't matter.

My little 10kw chadmo charger I bought used for $1,200 is $3,400 new. It was the 3rd one I saw on ebay in a year.
1 other one like mine and a full size 64kw unit that runs off 3 phase 480v power.
I search for chadmo on ebay a few times a week because I want a bigger chadmo that runs on 240v single phase.
My 10kw chadmo is rare, anything bigger that runs off 240v single phase is even rare among those.

[redpoint5]

Many of these comments are silly. Pointing out that the way things currently are and saying that precludes things being different in the future is foolish. It's like saying cell phones can't work back before there were any cell towers. Something not existing yet is not evidence of it not being viable in the future.

Who knows what charging standards will exist a quarter century from now? Just think of what's changed since 2000. You probably went from no cell phone and hardly using the internet for anything to using the internet on your cell phone for just about everything.

Regarding people not wanting to wear their EV battery by participating in V2G; setting upper and lower limits to drastically reduce wear to near zero will alleviate those concerns, and providing economic incentives will be sufficient to get wide participation. We don't need oil pan's Leaf on the grid when we've got hundreds of thousands of other vehicles connected.

[oil pan 4]

Yeah but the difference is I can make it happen.
Where the majority of people struggle to even have a garage or install a 240 circuit.
From what I can tell it appears from the leaf Facebook groups and my nissan leaf dot com it looks like around half of EV owners charge with 120v only at home using the evse that came with the car.
I have a garage and a 19 or 20kw circuit on tap.

Chadmo already has an all in one charger stand alone inverter made by nissan and sectec you can buy today. Also sectec has a grid tie chadmo with solar. The sectec grid tie unit needs is an Internet connection and it can be controlled by the power company and back feed vehicle battery power to the grid.

Not even tesla or any of the CSS cars can do this.
CSS changes their charging protocol every 6 months or so, they might be the first of the 2. Tesla thinks their stuff is the best and doesn't need to be changed so they will be last.
Teslas answer to the grid tie thing is "buy our (over priced and ridiculous) power wall".

[freebeard]

Many of these comments are silly...[snip]...Just think of what's changed since 2000. You probably went from no cell phone and hardly using the internet for anything to using the internet on your cell phone for just about everything.

Applying the generic 'you' to myself, I find that I still have no cell phone and spend the same amount of time on Internet (not the Internet). The only change is that in going from 56k dialup to 1.5mbit DSL packs more into the same amount of screen time.

If I get myself out from under these ICE cars, the Arcimoto FUV will get 110v/1500w in the carport.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Many of these comments are silly. Pointing out that the way things currently are and saying that precludes things being different in the future is foolish. It's like saying cell phones can't work back before there were any cell towers. Something not existing yet is not evidence of it not being viable in the future.

Who knows what charging standards will exist a quarter century from now? Just think of what's changed since 2000. You probably went from no cell phone and hardly using the internet for anything to using the internet on your cell phone for just about everything.

Regarding people not wanting to wear their EV battery by participating in V2G; setting upper and lower limits to drastically reduce wear to near zero will alleviate those concerns, and providing economic incentives will be sufficient to get wide participation. We don't need oil pan's Leaf on the grid when we've got hundreds of thousands of other vehicles connected.

The belief that technology is a savior is a form of foolishness. It’s takes very little to upset an increasingly delicate energy “system”. If that upset becomes in any way systemic fact, the money needed won’t be forthcoming on national much less an international scale.

Were this 1969, time and greater robustness would allow mistakes and changes. That era closed its window.

.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Applying the generic 'you' to myself, I find that I still have no cell phone and spend the same amount of time on Internet (not the Internet). The only change is that in going from 56k dialup to 1.5mbit DSL packs more into the same amount of screen time.

If I get myself out from under these ICE cars, the Arcimoto FUV will get 110v/1500w in the carport.

Of course, my point was made. In only 19 years, a crazy amount of change has occurred. What will the next 25 hold?

Originally Posted by slowmover

The belief that technology is a savior is a form of foolishness. It’s takes very little to upset an increasingly delicate energy “system”. If that upset becomes in any way systemic fact, the money needed won’t be forthcoming on national much less an international scale.

Were this 1969, time and greater robustness would allow mistakes and changes. That era closed its window.

.

V2G is enhancing robustness. First priority is for the home to have power from the EV, next is to help balance the grid. All voluntary.