The Slow Death of the Internal Combustion Engine

[freebeard]

Were this 1969, time and greater robustness would allow mistakes and changes. That era closed its window.

What will the next 25 hold?

architectmagazine.com:"Hippie Modernism" at Cranbrook


http://frommoontomoon.blogspot.com/2...-house-in.html

[RedDevil]

March 2019.
60% pure EV's sales, more than half of those were Teslas.
Tesla sold more cars than all diesel, gas and regular hybrids combined.

With 5315 cars sold the Model 3 broke every Norwegian monthly record.
4 years ago Tesla did not even build that many cars in one month... and now they sell this many in one country with a population of barely 5.4 million.

Norway does not even get the Standard or Standard Plus versions yet...

[Taylor95]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

March 2019.
60% pure EV's sales, more than half of those were Teslas.
Tesla sold more cars than all diesel, gas and regular hybrids combined.

With 5315 cars sold the Model 3 broke every Norwegian monthly record.
4 years ago Tesla did not even build that many cars in one month... and now they sell this many in one country with a population of barely 5.4 million.

Norway does not even get the Standard or Standard Plus versions yet...

That's quite amazing for such a small country. I wonder how much of a premium they pay over our 35k version.

[sendler]

What national incentives does Norway offer for the purchase of a new ev?

[RedDevil]

No road tax versus high tax on fossil fueled cars. Makes buying an ICE car a crime against your wallet.

The $35 version isn't available yet... but import tax does apply, so that would become somewhere in the mid 40k in €.

[sendler]

Like how much tax? 30% VAT for gas cars?

[Taylor95]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

No road tax versus high tax on fossil fueled cars. Makes buying an ICE car a crime against your wallet.

The $35 version isn't available yet... but import tax does apply, so that would become somewhere in the mid 40k in €.

Ah of course. I recall seeing somewhere that in certain places in Europe the taxes on some cars are more than the car itself...

Not having that tax on EVs is a very strong incentive to buy.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by Taylor95

Ah of course. I recall seeing somewhere that in certain places in Europe the taxes on some cars are more than the car itself...

Not having that tax on EVs is a very strong incentive to buy.

One of my friends has a WRX. Which cost him over €90,000.
The same car would cost less than half that in Belgium, less than 50 miles away. Belgium is way more lenient on pollution-indexed VRT taxes. (That link is for Ireland, but ours is likewise - and Norways may be even steeper)
Yet he wanted that car (his 4th or 5th Subaru - I lost count)...

EV's are exempt from tax over here, except for standard VAT and import taxes.

[redpoint5]

I maintain that's a dumb way to do anything. The incentives are so far removed from the goal that an alien visiting earth would have to conclude that there was special interests benefiting certain powerful people in certain tribes to explain why EVs are being pushed.

First step is to identify the problem. Let's assume the problem being addressed with EVs is CO2.

Is it clear that EVs substantially reduce fossil fuel consumption? If so, by how much?

What was the cost/benefit analysis on enacting subsidies for EVs? In other words, how much would it defund supposed necessary government services compared to the calculated benefits of the reduced climate change? Is the loss of government services or extra tax burden on citizens worth the delayed impacts of climate change? Did the government disclose how many days (if not hours considering how small the country is) this subsidy would delay climate change?

Is it clear that EVs are the superior technology to replace ICE vehicles? If so, why do they need subsidy? If not, why back a losing technology? Is it possible there are other technologies put at a competitive disadvantage that potentially could be superior to EVs due to special interest subsidies?

Is it good for government to open the door to corruption by supporting special interests above other businesses or industries?

If the problem is CO2 accumulation due to burning fossil fuels, would it not make more sense to simply reduce burning fossil fuels by way of slowly increasing taxation on it? This gives all technologies an equal chance to prove their usefulness to us and eliminates the possibility of bribery and corrupt politics.

... so, at best, EV subsidies are feel-good but practically useless exercises brought about by ignorance, and at worst, a hardship for citizens to endure while a few politicians and business people make back alley deals to make each other wealthy.

Politics is a slimy business on all sides, and people deserve the stupid people/policies they grant power to due to their simplistic and tribalistic nature (geez, I sound like Alldarc now).

BTW- I'm a huge fan of EVs, built one in high school, and am constantly reading about and scheming to buy one. My belief is it will turn out to be a superior technology and replace ICE vehicles. That said, my hunch is no reason to disadvantage lesser known technologies that could potentially be superior. I have no delusions that I'm (or any other person or group) is the all-knowing wise king that makes perfect decisions despite their imperfect understanding of an infinitely complex market and rapidly developing technology.

[RedDevil]

The taxes are a crude way of going about. Gas is taxed heavily over here but so is electricity, so the owner benefit of an EV is somewhat diluted. Then there's pollution levels in cities that need to be reduced, CO2 emissions reductions agreed upon but not met and the interests of special groups and companies to be factored in... and then exempting hybrids and EVs is the easy way out, at a given time.

EVs are getting better and cheaper though. The balance is shifting and special rebates and tax exemptions will soon be unnecessary. You can count on government to cut them once EVs make up a substantial part of the cars, just like they did with hybrids...