The Slow Death of the Internal Combustion Engine

[Xist]

People purchase vehicles based on everything they might ever want to do with the car before they trade it in the next year.

An electric car might be a problem in this one theoretical situation?!

Forget it!

Of course, they ignore actual problems, like pickup traction on ice.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by Taylor95

I should add that most people with EVs already own other cars, so snow probably isn't much of a concern to begin with.

TireRack is a fantastic resource the proves a fwd car with proper snow tires will out perform an awd vehicle with all season tires like most people try and do. Even a 4wd truck without snow tires will perform worse than a fwd vehicle with snow tires in their videos.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by Taylor95

Ok isn't good enough for many places in the country, including where I live. A consideration I make when purchasing a vehicle is how it will handle on snow packed roads. Many here don't think of that, and that results in missed work and car accidents.

But the standard of "good enough" is different for every person, and constantly changing. One person thinks a FWD car is just fine in the snow (myself), my neighbor with a Jeep thinks otherwise.

I'm in my father's camp on snow driving: it's maybe 5% vehicle, and 95% driver.

Originally Posted by Xist

People purchase vehicles based on everything they might ever want to do with the car before they trade it in the next year.

Exactly. My Civic did just fine on my (at the time) 56-mile commute in a blizzard, plowing through several inches of snow (and past many, many SUVs and trucks that had slid off the interstate and into drifts). But...what if it had snowed a foot?! 18"?! What if I needed to cross 3'+ of water?! What if I suddenly need to climb Uluru?! There will always be an imaginary "situation" that trumps whatever capabilities the device at hand has, and humans are very bad at assessing what is actually "good enough" for them. Heck, it's unthinkable today that anyone in America could live without a computer in their pocket at all times, when 20 years ago we seemed to get along just fine without them.

[redpoint5]

My grandfather's last vehicle purchase was a Chevy Colorado 4x4. It had to be 4x4 for the 1 day every 3 years it snows and sticks throughout the afternoon, so that his twice daily trips 12 miles round-trip to Sharis wouldn't be interrupted. It had to be a pickup because 5 years prior he was in the habit of throwing the garbage in the bed to take down to the trash container.

4x4 has never been engaged, and the bed has never been used. Now that he's dead, it gets driven once per day to Sharis for my grandmother. My grandmother that can't drive has a 1992 Caddy, and 3 Chevy pickups.

[Xist]

Dad left behind a six year-old F150 with too many miles and a loan. He wanted to sell it, but he was upside-down on the loan. He passed, we called the bank and asked if they wanted us to drop off the truck, they refused to talk to us, and then took it during the night.

I wonder how much he paid on the truck after he took it back from his friend and employee that drove 100,000 miles in a year instead of completing projects.

I am sure that insurance and registration were less than the remainder of the loan.

He also had a Focus SFE we wished we could have kept, but we couldn't afford the payments.

The dash said 50 MPG, but it dropped while I drove it as carefully as I could.

He had chains. Those are usually good enough, right?

[Taylor95]

True, what people consider as "ok" is very subjective. With many things I would rather have something and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Relatively speaking I do not engage 4wd for most of my driving. When I do I'm always glad to have it and my jeep is amazing in the snow. Compare that to some people I knew last winter who thought a FWD with H/T tires was good enough. I had to come over and help them get it back in their parking spot because they couldn't even leave the parking lot.

[Taylor95]

Originally Posted by hayden55

TireRack is a fantastic resource the proves a fwd car with proper snow tires will out perform an awd vehicle with all season tires like most people try and do. Even a 4wd truck without snow tires will perform worse than a fwd vehicle with snow tires in their videos.

That's great, actually. We are having a lot of people coming in from California who likely have never driven in the snow before and probably don't have even A/S tires. At least having the right tires would make a huge difference, however when most people think of Nevada, snowy winters usually don't come to mind

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Xist

He had chains. Those are usually good enough, right?

Chains will take you anywhere the vehicle has enough ground clearance to pass. The problem is they are a pain to take on and off. We had chains for our FWD cars when we lived in TN and AL. The first year after we moved to OR we went to Bend for Thanksgiving in the middle of a 20 inch snowfall. The chains worked fine but after taking them on and off a half dozen times on the side of the road I said enough is enough and we bought snow tires

The thing is, snow tires aren’t that much more expensive than chains. Yes, they cost about $600 upfront mounted on steel wheels but when you have winter tires on half the year your summer tires last twice as long so the cost per mile is minimal.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

Dad left behind a six year-old F150 with too many miles and a loan. He wanted to sell it, but he was upside-down on the loan. He passed, we called the bank and asked if they wanted us to drop off the truck, they refused to talk to us, and then took it during the night.

I wonder how much he paid on the truck after he took it back from his friend and employee that drove 100,000 miles in a year instead of completing projects.

I am sure that insurance and registration were less than the remainder of the loan.

He also had a Focus SFE we wished we could have kept, but we couldn't afford the payments.

The dash said 50 MPG, but it dropped while I drove it as carefully as I could.

He had chains. Those are usually good enough, right?

My friend once asked the financing company how many times over he had paid for his vehicle, and then asked if he could be done paying for it, and they agreed.

Contracts are negotiable, especially when you've already been so generous.

Regarding chains in AZ, yes they are plenty enough. Probably any tire with tread is fine.

[Xist]

How come people come up with unrealistic scenarios and not believable ones like only having $20 for gas for the next week or $5 gas?