Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[redpoint5]

Fiat has other vehicles? The whole brand can go away as far as I'm concerned.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

... their only car? Or does the renegade also qualify as a car, I mean it is right?

They also sell the Fiat 124 Spider. It is a slightly restyled Miata.

The Fiat 500s for North America are assembled in Toluca, Mexico. Rumor has it that the 500 is being discontinued to make room for a new crossover in that plant. That is prime real estate wasted making a car that sells less than 10K a year

The 500L comes from Serbia and the 500X from Italy.

[Bicycle Bob]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Fiat has other vehicles? The whole brand can go away as far as I'm concerned.

FIAT was making a combined heat and power unit for a house decades before conservation became popular. It should be illegal to burn fuel in a house any other way when heat is needed, but a heat pump would have helped even more.

[redpoint5]

Interesting concept, don't know why I didn't think of that. NG should be generating electricity in the quest for heating, but then would there be any less heat due to the fact that some of the energy would be converted to electricity and sent outside the home?

[Bicycle Bob]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Interesting concept, don't know why I didn't think of that. NG should be generating electricity in the quest for heating, but then would there be any less heat due to the fact that some of the energy would be converted to electricity and sent outside the home?

A good estimate is that a gasoline engine will produce 25% shaft power, 25% cooling water heat, and 50% exhaust heat, if a condenser is used. So, that shaft power is often matched to local power demand, needing only storage, etc. If sold, it would cover much of the fuel cost. (Heating oil works fine in a Datsun diesel. Don't ask me how I know.)
I'd like to see the math for what could be done running a simple, free-piston heat pump (electric take-off optional) and using some of the waste heat to pre-warm the air going into the heat pump. Their efficiency tends to drop off on the coldest days.

[Xist]

What about the iBarf?

[Piotrsko]

The heating oil in Saskatchewan is a different grade than anywhere else?

I 've run heating oil in all the diesel construction equipment for years. They stick your fuel tank and it's a $10,000 usd minimum fine here which is why I don't use it in my road equipment.

[Bicycle Bob]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

The heating oil in Saskatchewan is a different grade than anywhere else?

I 've run heating oil in all the diesel construction equipment for years. They stick your fuel tank and it's a $10,000 usd minimum fine here which is why I don't use it in my road equipment.

I have never bought heating oil here, nor have I personally driven with it. I just didn't want to limit the discussion to natural gas.

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

FIAT was making a combined heat and power unit for a house decades before conservation became popular. It should be illegal to burn fuel in a house any other way...

Co-gen all the way. Instead of just burning your favorite fuel for heat, burning it for power and harvesting the waste heat makes a lot more sense.

But with power brought in from the grid and heat being a modular thing in the corner of the basement, no builder is going to upgrade the electric service or add heat storage on a house that he's trying to build as cheaply as possible- he's not sticking around to pocket the savings. Homebuyers and realtors won't go for it either, because realtors can't properly price a feature whose savings build over time, and homebuyers just want to buy the house, not the next several years' worth of heat.

[redpoint5]

Mabe the waste heat from big NG generating stations should be harvested and pumped to local homes? I heard there are cities in Russia where heat is provided for "free" by centralized systems.