Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[Bicycle Bob]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

Co-gen all the way. Instead of just burning your favorite fuel for heat, burning it for power and harvesting the waste heat makes a lot more sense.

But with power brought in from the grid and heat being a modular thing in the corner of the basement, no builder is going to upgrade the electric service or add heat storage on a house that he's trying to build as cheaply as possible- he's not sticking around to pocket the savings. Homebuyers and realtors won't go for it either, because realtors can't properly price a feature whose savings build over time, and homebuyers just want to buy the house, not the next several years' worth of heat.

That's why we need regulations about efficiency, and our long-term consequences. When the oil rigs first came to Canada, they struck very high pressure natural gas. They only had a market for naptha, so they collected drops of that and vented the rest. If they had been allowed to continue, all the oil below would have been unrecoverable.

[MeteorGray]

I'm from Louisiana where oil and natural gas are strong geologic features. I remember growing up in the 40s and 50s seeing bright spots scattered in the sky at night from natural gas being flared into the air at the oil wells. Back then, there wasn't enough demand for natural gas to bother building the pipelines. It was considered a nuisance that had to be put up with in order to get the oil. Lots of things change with time; some for the better.

[Frank Lee]

Still flaring in North Dakota

[MeteorGray]

It's amazing that they can't make an economic case for capturing and using those flared-off fuels, not to mention the environmental costs. Where's the hazmat squad?

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Fiat has other vehicles? The whole brand can go away as far as I'm concerned.

Some of its models are sold in Mexico as a Dodge.

[Xist]

Shouty says the Jeep Renegade is a rebadged Fiat 500x. Wikipedia says the Renegade is built in Italy alongside the related 500x, but most of the engine and transmission options are Fiat. "The ProMaster City is a [...] Fiat Doblò that’s made in Turkey and rebadged for the U.S. market."http://money.com/money/3724650/ram-promaster-city-truck-chrysler-fiat/

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Xist

Shouty says the Jeep Renegade is a rebadged Fiat 500x. Wikipedia says the Renegade is built in Italy alongside the related 500x, but most of the engine and transmission options are Fiat.

They're basically the same, just the body panels are different. Since the Renegade is already being also made in Brazil, it wouldn't seem so out of place to make the 500X locally too, as it could eventually seem more attractive for customers who would otherwise look for the Bravo or the new Tipo which is not available here. OTOH both the 500X and the Tipo sedan are available in Argentina.

[Grant-53]

GM tried to promote the 350 V8 for home generation and heat. My natural gas furnace is 95% efficient and I have access to wind and solar electricity. If I want a standby generator I may build one that runs on wood gas. People in other localities may favor other options. An electric bike may be ideal for urban traffic. A Subaru Forester is useful in the Buffalo winters.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Grant-53

If I want a standby generator I may build one that runs on wood gas.

Wood gas is interesting. If I lived in a house or a ranch instead of an apartment, sure I would give it a try, as it would also be able to process other cellulosic stock such as corn cobs, old clothes or some paper not suitable for recycling due to some contaminations (such as frying oil).

People in other localities may favor other options. An electric bike may be ideal for urban traffic. A Subaru Forester is useful in the Buffalo winters.

It's somewhat pointless to insist on an one-size-fits-all approach, as there will always be some compromise. Well, I am extremely favorable to Diesel engines, but sometimes I look at natural gas and biomethane as a better option for some operations.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

That's why we need regulations about efficiency, and our long-term consequences. When the oil rigs first came to Canada, they struck very high pressure natural gas. They only had a market for naptha, so they collected drops of that and vented the rest. If they had been allowed to continue, all the oil below would have been unrecoverable.

California has tried,then lobbyists did what the could to kill it.The Supreme Court said California was empowered to do it.The automakers told California that they'd produce the 54.5 mpg cars,and now (last night) the US EPA says that California can't set their own standards.I can't keep up.