Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[Bicycle Bob]

Originally Posted by Xist

Would you rather buy a certified used Lexus or a brand-new Toyota?

With the used Lexus, I'd have a chance of selling it at a profit, but with the new Toyota, the loss is large and sure. I would not drive either one.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Xist

Would you rather buy a certified used Lexus or a brand-new Toyota?

Between those brands I would buy a CPO Toyota. (I've even done it once)

[Grant-53]

You end up calculating average annual cost over the useful life in the way accountants and engineers do for industrial machines. Consider if more than one person will be in the car normally.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by JSH

Both. I've work in the Automotive, AG, and ATV market for 20 years. Today the vehicles I work with a a bit bigger as seen in my profile picture. We have our own targets in the heavy duty sector and again they can be confusing. Some are in gallons per 1000 ton miles, some in grams CO2 per ton mile, some in gallons per 100 brake horsepower -hours.

What it boils down to is a requirement to reduce fuel consumption by 7-20% from 2014-2017 and another 15-27% from 2021 to 2027. The specific requirements depend on vehicle class (based on GVW) and type (Daycab vs Sleeper and low, mid, or high roof)

Fascinating. While I knew a lot of what you posted about cars, I never really had a handle on the legislative side of heavy truck emissions. Ironic since I drive trucks. I can say the Csacadia P4 has done a lot for mileage compared to my 2016 Evolution, but there’s some apples-to-oranges which make comparing the two a bit murky, eg. Eaton 10-speed manual vs. DT12 AMT, etc.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by jcp123

Fascinating. While I knew a lot of what you posted about cars, I never really had a handle on the legislative side of heavy truck emissions. Ironic since I drive trucks. I can say the Csacadia P4 has done a lot for mileage compared to my 2016 Evolution, but there’s some apples-to-oranges which make comparing the two a bit murky, eg. Eaton 10-speed manual vs. DT12 AMT, etc.

What year is your P4?

The P4 Cascadia was a big jump over the P3 Evolution. I believe the official number was an 8% fuel economy improvement. The Aero X package that came out in 2019 on the 2020 models is good for another 5%.

Lots of improvements coming in the future but they are harder and harder to find.

[jcp123]

It’s a ‘20, and I believe it has that Aero package. I was one of the first in my company to get a P4 last summer. It’s a big part of the fleet now, unfortunately that air dam on the chin regularly gets the snot beaten out of it.

I don’t keep regular logs on mileage, but it’s around 9% better than the old Evo (7.4mpg —> 8.1 or so), not an insubstantial improvement.

The P4 is definitely nice. It’s a step up mostly in terms of how my company specs it up these days, but also improvements to the dash and instrument layout. There are also a few flaws, but FE improvement isn’t one of them.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Fallacy of the Excluded Middle.

That's a good point. Well, even if the Lexus (model unspecified) would retain more of its purchase price on resale value, once the overall ownership expenses remain higher than what would be for a Yaris or a Corolla, it's quite easier to justify going for a brand-new Toyota.

An all new metal VW 23-window bus body is 17.5K. One could use it for a tiny house to save rent and pay off a Tesla drivetrain conversion.

I have alreasy considered a similar approach, but with some more modern (and bigger) van in order to retain more space for amenities. And most likely would not convert to EV.

[Fat Charlie]

And you really clean up with a CPO Toyota.

I cleaned up with a brand new Fit. It may not be a Lexus, but they listed for so little that anything used didn't offer enough savings to make up for the 30k+ miles on them (I'm picky about buying used MTs). Gas, tires, oil changes and one failed injector make for a very low cost of ownership over the last 7 1/2 years. I think it's going to be due another 4 quarts of oil by the end of this winter...

[redpoint5]

None of my Japanese branded vehicles have ever had something fail that isn't considered a wear item... the Subaru Legacy had an under-performing cat, but then Marion county doesn't care, so I didn't either. Spark plugs, plug wires, that's about it. I had to replace the struts at 200k miles on my parents Toyota Camry. My 2006 Acura TSX hasn't had any problems. Neither did my 2012 Prius. The company Mazda CX-5 just had 30k service and no issues.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

None of my Japanese branded vehicles have ever had something fail that isn't considered a wear item... the Subaru Legacy had an under-performing cat, but then Marion county doesn't care, so I didn't either. Spark plugs, plug wires, that's about it. I had to replace the struts at 200k miles on my parents Toyota Camry. My 2006 Acura TSX hasn't had any problems. Neither did my 2012 Prius. The company Mazda CX-5 just had 30k service and no issues.

Me either, but depends what you consider a wear item. My Echo got to 16 years and about 290k miles with all original hard parts despite hard abuse. It was really heavily abused, I say that again because...it was anyone’s definition of a piece of crap. When it sprung a coolant leak, I deemed it gone and took the $200 cash from a scrap yard because it would have been so hard to sell. Was probably only a $100 in parts and coolant plus a day to fix, but who wants a car with mold on the carpet and a wife with no sentiment to the first and only new car her (now divorced) parents ever bought? She’d been pushing me to get another car anyway.

My Civic had a fresh but cheap O2 sensor when I bought it at 168k. It failed a couple of months later. The alternator went to crap last week, and the AC failed a month ago. Not saying that it’s unreliable, but I can’t worship the Japanese Car God as an infallible thing, either.