sneak peak at new the euro spec honda insight

[PaleMelanesian]

This is still using Honda's IMA system - the primary engine is gas, with an electric booster. Honda did have a manual in the original Insight, as well as the 1st gen Civic hybrid.

[Cd]

No plug in ?

POO POO

[Sean T.]

ugh... I know the comments have been positive, but I can't stand this car! It looks like a civic got squashed between a CR-V and an Impala. I hope they tweak it before it gets here.

[cfg83]

trikkonceptz -

Originally Posted by trikkonceptz

I know a manual would be ideal for this type of car, but how would it work on the electric side? Hate to thread jack, but I have always wondered how a manual transmission would work with an electric motor.

I am guessing that it's a Target Region + R&D + UMC (Unit Manufacturing Cost) issue. It's cheaper to develop and optimize for one drivetrain. USA is auto-trans-centric, so it's best to go where the $$ is. They *could* make a manual version, but that would represent a small segment of their sales, and the Prius is doing fine without one. Maybe the pro-manual Euro-market could push them to change their minds.

Question: How have hybrids fared in Europe? I read that they were not as successful, partially because of the pre-existing high MPG diesels.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

PaleMelanesian -

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

This is still using Honda's IMA system - the primary engine is gas, with an electric booster. Honda did have a manual in the original Insight, as well as the 1st gen Civic hybrid.

Ooooooh, then that means they *could* offer a manual if they really wanted to, yes? I hope engineers are lobbying for that inside Honda.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

MetroMPG -

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Thanks for the Wayne review tip, PaleMelanesian. I'll be reading that.

I still think Honda is underestimating the importance of EV mode in the public's embrace of hybrid technology. I predict they're not going to sell as many of these as they think, and Toyota will continue to dominate the segment.

Hmmmm, I don't know. Does the general public have an awareness of the "EV mode" distinction? If Honda can just get combined MPG bragging rights *and* sell it at a lower price than the Prius, they might be able to get more of the hybrid market. In other Honda press releases they have hinted at sub-$20K Honda Fits with hybrid drivetrains.

When the Insight didn't sell, I thought it was because the car was "too small" to be useful from average buyer POVs. When the Prius beat out the Civic Hybrid, I read that one reason was that the Civic Hybrid did not distinguish itself as a "unique" car, i.e. no image recognition, unlike the Prius. When the Accord Hybrid failed, I read it was due to an emphasis on superior performance rather than fuel economy.

But I can see that the Prius is a better platform from the plug-in crowd POV, so it has the after-market engineering group on it's side.

Hmmmm, if Honda fails again, maybe people will say that Honda gave up and made a faux-Prius with Insight badges.

CarloSW2

[lunarhighway]

Question: How have hybrids fared in Europe? I read that they were not as successful, partially because of the pre-existing high MPG diesels.

i don't have any sales figures so it's hard to say for sure if it's been a big success, that also depends on what toyota's expectations where with the prius. wich is pretty much the only hybrid we had untill recent

the price advantage of diesels caused by heavy but uneven taxing of fuels and the the vast range of refined diesel engines from small to huge power makes it an obvious choise for people who clock many miles.. in fact 50% of all cars over here are diesels and i assume they're the ones most driven too.

the looks of the prius are less uncommon as they might be elsewhere, with a vast fleet of hatchbacks and small to large mpv's on the road...the prius only just looks a little different.
that could be an advantage to some but it doesn't help if you want i car they screams 'look at me i'm a hybrid'.

on the other hand i think hybrids have one advantage and that's that they're far more efficient in dens traffic and traffic jams... something wich is part of a lot of people's dayly commute. than again more and more cars are comming out with a start stop system that just shuts off the engine when the car is not or very slowly moveing... if that works well enough the electro motor and heavy batteries are not really needed to cut down emisions.

a plug in hybrid or ev would be a different story, but i can't see the curent generation of hybrids become a huge success overe here... than again i think toyota realises very well that this car is not the holy grale, but rather a public testbed for new technology.

still i think most people over here don't really care about how many liters or horses are under the hood... they want a comfortable car that has goes when they stomp their foot down but at the end of the day doesn't break the bank at the petrol station.

the success of this honda will depend on how much it will cost in comparison with comprabable sized and equipted cars,and the prius of course... what gas prises will do and how the governement taxes or benefits it.

there are problems with fine particles from diesel engines, and perhaps in an attempt to meet european requirements my country might choose to support hybrids.

[PaleMelanesian]

Originally Posted by cfg83

Ooooooh, then that means they *could* offer a manual if they really wanted to, yes? I hope engineers are lobbying for that inside Honda.

CarloSW2

I'm pretty sure they won't. The dropped the option in the Insight 1 halfway through the model run. They made the Gen 2 Civic Hybrid without any manual. I think they've made up their minds.

There was a problem with the early Insights with manuals. Drivers were lead-footing them and running the battery pack down. A number of the early models had battery failures due to too many depletion cycles. They changed the charging logic for the later years, which helped.

The other solution, which they have settled on, is to use a CVT. In high-demand situations, like climbing a mountain, it runs the engine at high rpm (3000+) rather than draw down the battery excessively. It hurts for mpg, but vastly improves the lifespan of the system. They settled for reliability at the expense of mpg.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

I hope it come standard with steel wheels -- so we can put smooth wheel covers on!

I think it does have an electric-only mode. And they have greatly increased the amount of regenerative braking when you use the brake pedal, vs the earlier iterations of this drivetrain designs.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by cfg83

Does the general public have an awareness of the "EV mode" distinction?

The general public? Probably not.

But just about everyone I know who's driven a Toyota hybrid comments on how neat it is to drive the car without the gas engine coming on. (And I mean "average" people, not efficiency nuts.)

I think it's become a big part of what they like about driving a hybrid.