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Old 04-02-2019, 06:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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It says the frameless panels lack a suitable mounting system.

Also some utilities are anti solar. Where I am excel energy has made it so you have to jump through every hoop imaginable.
Plus electricity is cheap here.
I'm on a coop now. Their solar requirements are minimal.

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Old 04-03-2019, 12:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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down the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
One further consideration to keep in mind 2-3 decades down the road, can solar panels (and giant wind turbines) be mined, refined, manufactured, and installed, without fossil fuels? Which they are currently completely reliant on every step of the way.
I'm gonna say yes,only because there's an imperative that it be so.
And if the necessity of invention is a mutha,and necessity is the mother of invention,then those with a passion for solving this issue will emerge from the woodwork,and apply all their skill sets in the intervening years.It's what Americans do.And our global neighbors.
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If either of those two had as much research put into them as ICE vehicles have, there would no longer be ICE vehicles except for specialized uses.

JJ
ie mining, transportation, construction, agriculture.
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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ie mining, transportation, construction, agriculture.
Mining: Electrics have been in use underground for decades to keep underground gasses from igniting. Battery powered electrics are just coming into their own.

From Medatec:https://medatech.ca/case-study/batte...-mining-truck/

"Why Electric

Battery Electric Equipment allows a mine to unlock a trifecta of benefits: improved health and safety, reduced greenhouse gas emissions, and decreased operating costs. Removing emissions from even a few metres, never mind kilometres, below the ground requires massive ventilation infrastructure—shafts, equipment, and enormous amounts of electricity to run the machinery.

“Moving away from diesel and by achieving other reductions associated with the use of clean technologies, (a typical mine) can avoid more than 7,500 tons of CO2 and eliminate 3 million litres of diesel fuel, 1 million litres of propane and 35,000 megawatt hours of electricity every year.”"

Transportation: Well, train engines have been hybrids since the beginning of diesel engines. The diesel powers generators for the electricity and the electric motors move the engine. Can they install enough batteries to take the place of the diesel engine? Don't know. But I bet if they can figure out a way to do it, say maybe add a battery pack car, that they will because a ninety percent battery pack efficiency is better than a thirty percent efficient diesel engine.

Flying might be a more difficult challenge but many there are many groups around the world working on it right now.

Construction and Agriculture: Guess it depends on the type and location. In the past I've used both ICE powered and battery powered lifts in construction. Never did any farming although I grew up in the land of corn and beans.

The point is, I'm not suggesting that every piece of fossil fueled machinery will be eliminated but that a huge amount of them can be and likely will. There are always exceptions to every rule and that's fine. But if something that is logical and somehow makes the world a better place can be done, then it should be done.

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Old 04-03-2019, 01:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Transportation: Well, train engines have been hybrids since the beginning of diesel engines. The diesel powers generators for the electricity and the electric motors move the engine. Can they install enough batteries to take the place of the diesel engine? Don't know. But I bet if they can figure out a way to do it, say maybe add a battery pack car, that they will because a ninety percent battery pack efficiency is better than a thirty percent efficient diesel engine.
Please do the math regarding how much battery capacity it would take to move a train any reasonable distance. Or heavy truck. or a large farm tractor. or an earth mover that carries a load uphill. There is no replacing the nearly magical energy density of liquid fuel that we are now blessed with for doing heavy work.
.

.
.
570 Liters of diesel per day = 5,700 kWh per day. Even if you cut that by2.5 for the extra efficiency of electric motors with round trip losses you get 2,300 kWh per day for a large size farm machine. 12 Tesla grid scale 200kWh powerpacks per day to hot swap in and out. for just one tractor. We are going to need to start making a lot of wire to get all of this power around
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:17 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Thr big diesel locomotives have something to the tune of 6,000hp and carry 5,000 gallons of fuel.
They could be powered electrically with external power.
It would be difficult to replace the 5,000 gallon diesel battery.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
And if the necessity of invention is a mutha....


https://duckduckgo.com/?q=roll-to-roll+film+solar

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tesla+roof

Keep these in mind when doing projections.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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CAT LEXION

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Please do the math regarding how much battery capacity it would take to move a train any reasonable distance. Or heavy truck. or a large farm tractor. or an earth mover that carries a load uphill. There is no replacing the nearly magical energy density of liquid fuel that we are now blessed with for doing heavy work.
.

.
.
570 Liters of diesel per day = 5,700 kWh per day. Even if you cut that by2.5 for the extra efficiency of electric motors with round trip losses you get 2,300 kWh per day for a large size farm machine. 12 Tesla grid scale 200kWh powerpacks per day to hot swap in and out. for just one tractor. We are going to need to start making a lot of wire to get all of this power around
I took the fuel consumption of the harvester,converted to gallons,then to Btus,then kWhs,then using 44.2% thermal efficiency,ended up with 2,696.696 kWh/day.
If the farmer broke their work day into half-days,we'd be looking at 1,348.3 kWh at a stretch,between meals on a long day.
It might be possible for the rear wheels to be the batteries,containing enough battery mass for a half-day's work,then fast-recharge the rig during 'lunch'/'dinner'.
Typically,these tires are filled with water,are extremely heavy,and might as well serve double-duty,rather than just as dead weight.
If rationalized,as a standard dimension,they could be used across all manufacturers product lines,fitting all brands.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:39 PM   #29 (permalink)
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By the time combines go electric, they will have been full auto well before that. You'd have a controller in charge of 10 combines remotely monitoring operations, with the harvesters operating at 99% autonomous.

It matters less how long to recharge if the harvesters otherwise don't take breaks and work 24/7 around the clock. Then again, simply refueling and moving on to the next field makes it much more appealing to large operations.

Perhaps tractors are the correct operation to utilize quick swap batteries. Use one while the other charges.

Maybe then the battery would only need to be ~400 kWh, or large enough to handle whatever the continuous load is without being damaged.

What is the typical HP demands of a combine?
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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horsepower

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By the time combines go electric, they will have been full auto well before that. You'd have a controller in charge of 10 combines remotely monitoring operations, with the harvesters operating at 99% autonomous.

It matters less how long to recharge if the harvesters otherwise don't take breaks and work 24/7 around the clock. Then again, simply refueling and moving on to the next field makes it much more appealing to large operations.

Perhaps tractors are the correct operation to utilize quick swap batteries. Use one while the other charges.

Maybe then the battery would only need to be ~400 kWh, or large enough to handle whatever the continuous load is without being damaged.

What is the typical HP demands of a combine?
The CAT LEXION 500-series was listed at 462-hp.

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