Starting My A/C Seat project

[Funny]

Originally Posted by dremd

Any reason for the Muslin over gluing the tubes direct to the foam? (Probably are)

My guess is to keep the tubing down so that it stays in the channels, it may also wick away condensation.

Originally Posted by dremd

What is Tygon Tubing?

Tygon is a modified polyvinyl plastic. Tygon tubing is most commonly found in laboratories and the food industry. It is very clear and so resistant to chemical attack, it will handle practically any chemical without damage, even from prolonged contact. Because of its flexability, it will curve around corners and is resistant quite durable. It's also pretty cheap, considering other tubing solutions. If you need to make the tubing more flexible, just dip it in boiling water for a few moments.

[metromizer]

Originally Posted by dremd

Any reason for the Muslin over gluing the tubes direct to the foam? (Probably are)?

To keep the tubing where you want it, it also adds a thin layer that won't abrade the inside of the factory seat cover.

Originally Posted by dremd

What is Tygon Tubing?

Brand name for a popular flexible clear PVC or nylon tubing perfect for your application. The silicon tube might stay flexable longer though, Tygon gets brittle after a few years, but it's cheap VWR and Cole-Parmer are great sources for tubing, connectors and maybe industrial and scientific grade pumps. McMaster-Carr, too.

edit: I posted before I read the above, about Tygon

[Concrete]

Dremd,

I hope everything is well

I received my cool-or-heat seat in the mail today & discovered it was assembled with velcro
so... you guess it - I immediately disassembled it

I have thus discovered some things that will aid you on your quest

first a picture (see below)

the whole seat uses one continuous tube
great for preventing leaks - and works reasonable well for the 2 square feet that are cooled by it
If you let the thing get up to speed the whole tube stays cold
so your design with 4 loops top and bottom will be potent indeed

next the loops only cover about 1 square foot on your back and one square foot under your butt
this is not enough area to really cool you off if you are really hot
- in your design you will want to cool as much of your seat that touches you as you can
but I believe in the case of this design - the area to be cooled is sort of matched to the cooler capacity.

finally the tubes are laid in a thin sheet of foam before being inserted in the seat cover
the foam appears to have a track melted/removed in it for the tube and the tube laid in it with a bit of adhesive

as an engineer I like the design and the peltier concept
but the product itself is not impressive - it is a Pinto not a Lexus
the major limitations are appearance/ruggedness of the cover and cooling capacity
but you will not have these issues with a leather seat and an ice bucket for a heat sink

There is lots of modding potential with this silly thing - but i will use it "as is" this summer
who knows, I may be modding my seat like you next summer
I might even Borg this thing into my truck

interested in your progress

[dremd]

Well I'm ok; crazy but Ok.
No internet until today
No Phone until today
And a wrecked car in the house.

Sorry No progress yet.

[Concrete]

Um... "a wrecked car in the house"

you don't have to apologize about progress with that going on
I hope everyone is safe

Hang in there

[dremd]

EveryBody is Physically OK That's the important thing.

Yes; a family member ran the 05 vibe up on something hard and yellow.
That Same family member pushed me over my Fair Access Policy for Wild Blue
The phone is probably (99%) my fault.

The vibe Err
Radiator support bent in 10"
Lower tie bar looks like a pretzel
Bent Tie rods
Smashed Grill
Smashed A/C + radiator

It's been killing 99% of my free time.

[justpassntime]

Originally Posted by dremd

EveryBody is Physically OK That's the important thing.

Yes; a family member ran the 05 vibe up on something hard and yellow.
That Same family member pushed me over my Fair Access Policy for Wild Blue
The phone is probably (99%) my fault.

The vibe Err
Radiator support bent in 10"
Lower tie bar looks like a pretzel
Bent Tie rods
Smashed Grill
Smashed A/C + radiator

It's been killing 99% of my free time.

Sounds like a certain family member may get FAP'd too!
(Glad no one was hurt!)

Man if you don't hurry it'll be winter and I'll have to figure out how to hook a coffee maker to this thing to heat the seat so I won't have to run the heater fan! Um...new idea gotta go!

[Concrete]

Dremd,
hope all is well
I'm sure everything is not full speed after the Evel Knievel Vibe event

butt.... I have some data from using this cool-or-heat seat for a week or more that might be of interest to you (and maybe MazdaMatt and the "cool towel")

putting aside the slow thermal electric issues and issues with my particular seat cover there are some basic problems with cold tubes and butt cooling I have discovered.

The seat cover I have has a very thin cover of nylon between me and the tubes so keep this in mind as I relay my issues

Condensation is a problem -
it might be less thru a thicker layer of leather - but I can see the wet outline of the cooling tube path after I have sat & sweat on it.

Cold tubes can be very uncomfortable to sit on -
perhaps for a cool shirt that lays on your skin this is acceptable
but when gravity presses your arse & back into a cold tube that is wet with sweat - it is almost painful
I have had to turn this wimpy thermo-electric cooler off because it was uncomfortable after it starts getting cold.
even when I was in a hot cab and sweating (yes this is an odd feeling)
this is compounded by the insulating properties of the foam around the tubes
it seems to focus the cold into narrow uncomfortable channels
if you are using ice water & an 8 loop system it might drive you out of the seat
your leather seats may mitigate some of this
also wondering if smaller tubes (capillary) and more of them might help.

A cold seat (towel) may not be enough-
I have used this seat cover in hot conditions and it is not enough (even when full uncomfortably cold) to keep me anywhere near cool. This cover is only cooling about 2 square feet - but I have to use the air-conditioner as well. In conjunction with A/C it is nice to have a cool seat - without A/C you sweat
not sure I have even turned the A/C down much

just a heads up before you start cutting on your seat
you may want make a cool towel type temporary mockup for a few drives before you commit.

[justpassntime]

Is there a aluminized fabric or another means of spreading the cold more evenly over the entire seat cushion?

This way it wouldn't be like sitting on a frozen branding iron.

I guess you could always throw a beaded seat cushion over it....

[Concrete]

Dremd,

hope the Vibe & house is going back together okay

I do have an update from using the cool or heat seat - with a mod
it is not a beaded seat cover though

to prevent the aptly named "frozen branding iron" effect
I covered my seat cover with a piece of cheap vinyl
sort of a faux leather experiment - thought it might help your project

the vinyl does help spread the cool out a bit
it takes longer to cool off (more thermal inertia) but with your design that won't as big an issue as with mine

condensation is still there - but like you said -not as bad as just sweating into seat

still would recommend a set up that you could take back out with out damage for initial development

looking forward to how it turns out
I might hack this seat cover into a "Dremd-like" concept next summer if you get something you like