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Old 12-12-2017, 05:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Steel alloy wheels?

Hi,

I was wondering if there was a full list of steel + alloys and their mpg?

I'm considering hardening (like this) too but I'm not sure if it would add more weight :/ Does anyone here know?


Last edited by hotwheel; 12-14-2017 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 12-12-2017, 06:15 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You're trying to compare the fuel difference between steel and aluminum(alloy) wheels, is that correct?

If so, you can get aluminum wheels that weigh more than their steel counterparts, so you might actually be worse off running aluminum wheels. Lighter wheels will use less energy to accelerate and braking will take more energy to stop them. Cruising at the same speed and there won't be any notable fuel use difference.

And then there's the actual shape of the wheel/spokes and how it affects air flow. If they're acting as big fans, they're going to put more drag on the car than if they were smooth/flat and did not.

Its not as simple as saying aluminum (alloy) wheels give better MPGs than steel.
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Impossible to do a direct mpg comparison without controlling for other factors. For instance, on my car, "heavy" 20lb steel wheels would deliver identical highway economy to the featherweight 11lb factory alloys, so long as a smooth hubcap was installed - weight is almost irrelevant on the highway. My 12lb spoked winter alloys would almost certainly be worse on the highway since they're not aerodynamic in the least. And, given that different vehicles cut through the air differently, how smooth the wheels are will have more or less impact depending on what vehicle they're installed on. Even the speed you drive will vary the relative impact.

My light factory alloys have the least inertia, meaning it takes the least energy to get moving in stop and go traffic, but in some cases weight isn't a negative - you coast farther, meaning in "pulse and glide" you're going to be keeping the engine off a lot longer.

That said, lighter wheels are generally better. You get braking/acceleration/cornering/handling benefits if nothing else. But, you can't just compare total wheel mass - those rims with the weight more toward the outer edge will have higher inertia (feel heavier) even if they weight the same sitting on a scale.




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Old 12-12-2017, 09:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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^^ Came here to say this, esp. the part about inertial behavior of the wheel not being dependent on it weighing the same.

Ecky, it's hard for me to look at your car and not covet it just a little.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's a clean machine.

It's been covered except for rim diameter/aspect ratio. The comparisons I did suggest aluminum weight approximates rubber, both lighter than steel. So a low aspect ratio tire on a steel rim will have [marginally] more rotational inertia.

Just go for Mugens:


https://deebee8ahh.wordpress.com/2010/03/16/sweet-old-mugen-wheels/

Aero with good brake cooling.

Else 944/928 manhole covers;

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...s/32765/page1/
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It had to be about the cooling; I looked at that and thought, Dang, that looks like a fan clutch has been made into a wheel.
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Centrifugal force rules.

The caps didn't survive well, You can see fastener to the southeast has failed.

I don't how they help cooling. They must put thermal paste under the lug nuts.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Impossible to do a direct mpg comparison without controlling for other factors. For instance, on my car, "heavy" 20lb steel wheels would deliver identical highway economy to the featherweight 11lb factory alloys, so long as a smooth hubcap was installed - weight is almost irrelevant on the highway. My 12lb spoked winter alloys would almost certainly be worse on the highway since they're not aerodynamic in the least. And, given that different vehicles cut through the air differently, how smooth the wheels are will have more or less impact depending on what vehicle they're installed on. Even the speed you drive will vary the relative impact.

My light factory alloys have the least inertia, meaning it takes the least energy to get moving in stop and go traffic, but in some cases weight isn't a negative - you coast farther, meaning in "pulse and glide" you're going to be keeping the engine off a lot longer.

That said, lighter wheels are generally better. You get braking/acceleration/cornering/handling benefits if nothing else. But, you can't just compare total wheel mass - those rims with the weight more toward the outer edge will have higher inertia (feel heavier) even if they weight the same sitting on a scale.



worth repeating!
worth repeating!
well said!
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Impossible to do a direct mpg comparison without controlling for other factors. For instance, on my car, "heavy" 20lb steel wheels would deliver identical highway economy to the featherweight 11lb factory alloys, so long as a smooth hubcap was installed - weight is almost irrelevant on the highway. My 12lb spoked winter alloys would almost certainly be worse on the highway since they're not aerodynamic in the least. And, given that different vehicles cut through the air differently, how smooth the wheels are will have more or less impact depending on what vehicle they're installed on. Even the speed you drive will vary the relative impact.

My light factory alloys have the least inertia, meaning it takes the least energy to get moving in stop and go traffic, but in some cases weight isn't a negative - you coast farther, meaning in "pulse and glide" you're going to be keeping the engine off a lot longer.

That said, lighter wheels are generally better. You get braking/acceleration/cornering/handling benefits if nothing else. But, you can't just compare total wheel mass - those rims with the weight more toward the outer edge will have higher inertia (feel heavier) even if they weight the same sitting on a scale.



I think Ecky nailed every significant point on the subject.

On a side note, I love seeing VX wheels on an Insight. Its funny to think that Honda made what is arguably some of there most appealing and efficient wheels in the '90s in the VX (14") and HX (15") wheels, which share the same design. If only they kept going and made larger sizes. Oh well. Topic derailment, over.

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